Ep. 2. Bill Brown "Brownie": Houston Astros 2023 Hall of Famer, Cincinnati Reds baseball TV broadcaster and man of God

Interview with former longtime Cincinnati Reds and now Houston Astros Hall of Famer (Class of 2023) play by play announcer Bill Brown. Brownie and I discuss the finer points of broadcasting, his broadcasting career and how his Faith in God guided him throughout, and his days with the Big Red Machine in Cincinnati and the Killer Bees in Houston. Please support Sight Into Sound at:  Sight into Sound Houston, TX and Salute to Heroes at: Salute to Our Heroes - Cy-Fair Educational Foundation (thecfef.org). Please follow me on Twitter:  (20) Greg Randolph (@HeroesIconsPod) / Twitter
Thank you!! 

Transcript

 Welcome, everyone to episode number two. You have found once again the Heroes and Icons Podcast. I am your host, Greg Randolph. Uh, please find us on Instagram at Heroes and Icons Podcast. Well, you can also find this in future episodes, episodes, wherever you enjoy getting your podcast. If you would please review, subscribe, like, and share.

And that helps us deliver premium, premium content to you as well. So thank you for doing that. Um, let me take just a minute here and introduce my guest. Our guest today enjoyed a baseball broadcast career spanning 45 years for the Cincinnati Reds and Houston Astros. His highlight reel includes calls of the Houston Astros, 2005 National League pen winning season, Craig Vios, 3000th career hit in 2007, Jeff Bagwell's, 400th career home run in 2003, and the 2000th career hits for Bagwell, Miguel Tejada and Carlos Lee.

In 2004, he was inducted into the Texas Baseball Hall of Fame. And in 2012 at the Houston Baseball Dinner, he was named by the Houston Chapter of baseball writers as the recipient of the Fred c Hartman Award for long and Meritor and meritorious service to the industry. He has, he has also written or co-authored several baseball and Houston Astros historical books is on several local advisory boards of schools and charities in the Houston, Texas area with his wife Diane.

And he is, and he is still involved with Astros organization. Without any further ado, my guest today is the one and only Bill Brown. It's been a few years, sir , it's really great to see you. How are you, how is the family doing and what's keeping you busy these days? Well, thanks for coming out, uh, and I'm glad you're doing this podcast.

The family's doing great. Thank you. And, uh, we're, we're great. Very grateful to God for all the many blessings we have. We're a good health. . Uh, we have, uh, two grandchildren in college and the third one is, uh, junior in high school. So Wow. We're extremely blessed and trying to keep up with them from afar because they're in Minnesota.

Ah, make, makes travel a little difficult. Yes. Yes. Okay. Any future baseball players? Well, no. We don't have any future baseball players, but we have three great kids, so that's the most important thing. There you go. Yeah. Okay. Very good. So, so let me just, uh, let me just dive right in and, and talk. So you grew up in Missouri?

Mm-hmm. , can you talk about, about that time and what was your, what was your, your first introduction to, to baseball?  for some reason. And I played baseball when I was, oh, probably starting when I was seven or eight, you know? Mm-hmm. , like, like a lot of kids too. And, uh, just loved it. Couldn't get enough of it.

We would play in the front yard or backyard wiffle ball at that time. Yeah. A lot of Wiffle ball. And then I played organized ball, little league, and, uh, Connie m Big Ruth. And, and, uh, the organized leagues never played on my high school team. I really wasn't that good, but I couldn't get enough baseball.

Okay. And, um, would listen to baseball games, would read the newspaper and just, you know, read the statistics. And back in those days, Greg, every Sunday the paper had all the batting averages of all the players. That was the only time you get to see batting averages on Sunday in the paper. So we  really, uh, await the arrival of the Sunday paper so we could see what Julian and Javier was hitting.

But it wasn't available all the time like it is now.  Of course, of course. So was there, was there something that, so what, what initially captivated you about baseball? What, what made made you gravitate towards baseball so much? You know, it, it was a popular sport. Uh, most of us guys played it in some form, whether it was whiffle ball or whatever.

Uh, a lot of us listened to it on the radio and I really think that was what captivated it the most for me, and then led to me wanting to do that. Okay. Uh, because of listening. And I usually it was the St. Louis Cardinals, uh, Harry Carey and Jack Buck. Right. So they were my nightly entertainment, and I would do what other kids did and go to bed with the transistor under my pillow.

And mom would open the door at nine 30. And You're sleeping in there, son? Yeah, I'm asleep. And, uh, turn down the radio a little bit and let's go back to the seventh inning, that kind of thing. . So, so you bought, so you, you had a job at a bowling alley that was Broadway lanes. Yeah. And you bought, you bought, you saved, you saved money from that job, and you bought a cassette recorder.

And then on the Saturday game of the week, you and a friend would turn down the announcers on the tv and then you would, you would call the game yourself. Yes. So can, can you tell me about that please? Well, you know, um, I didn't go to many major league games. We were in Sedalia, Missouri. We were 80 miles from Kansas City.

Okay. And we had the Kansas City AEs back then, right before they moved to Oakland. And Right. Uh, we went to a few games there. St. Louis was 200 miles away. Wow. So only went to just a few Cardinal games. Therefore, um, not the only way to practice doing play by play was to turn down the sound on tv. And that was a difficult way to do it.

Mm-hmm. , uh, but a good learning tool nonetheless. And then, uh, occasionally I would take my recorder out to, uh, Jenny Jane's Stadium, which was the local park, uh, and, uh, do some play by play of whatever games happened to be played. You know, summer league stuff. Mm-hmm.  there. And it didn't really matter, you know, who the players were, you could make up names.

Right. But it was just the idea of describing the action.  and that, and that really appealed to you after listening to Buck and Carrie? Oh, definitely, definitely. Uh, for me, that was number one. So when I was 14 years old, Greg, this is what I wanted to do. Okay. Yeah, that's, that's what I was, that's what I was trying to, trying to understand there.

And, and so you, um, you had, you, you had done this and then you had, um, you had some, you start calling games in, in high school. Mm-hmm. . And, and actually the day after your, your high school prom, your, your dad sends you off with, with his briefcase and, and a little bit of cash and says, Hey, good luck. Go get him.

Yeah. Type of thing. Could you talk about, about your dad for a second, what he, what he meant to you in that, in that way? My dad was a great guy. He was a hardworking, uh, small town attorney. Mm-hmm. . So he, at one point was the prosecuting attorney, but um, also was a defense attorney.  and, um, he did divorces, he did, you know, accident law, uh, lawsuits and, and things of that nature.

Uh, occasionally a criminal case, right? We get calls at two and three in the morning from guys in jail wanting him to come down and bail them out. Wow. And the phone would ring and, you know, back in the old days before cell phones woke up, everybody in the house, of course, and I would usually answer it and that it would be somebody who had, uh, been arrested usually for d DUI or something along those lines, and wanted him to come down immediately and bail him out.

Okay. So, um, he, he'd get up at six in the morning and have his legal pad and have his cup of coffee when the rest of us got up and he would've been, uh, working on, you know, lawsuit information, uh, examining abstracts, I believe it was most of the time. But I never had any desire to follow in his footsteps.

I did see him in the courtroom a few times, and he was a.  a really captivating speaker. So I, I think that is what I took away from it more than anything else, you know, using speech. Mm-hmm.  as, as an occupation and as a way to express and as a way to get to a point of convincing people to do something.

That was really what I took away from that. But he was a, he was a great dad, he was very supportive. We didn't play catch a whole lot because he was busy, but they went to all my games and, you know, very, very supportive, great parents. And then you took that, you took that, that speech part, and you combined that with your love of baseball and that's, and that kind of, kind of segued into the, into the broadcasting part.

Yes. And I took, uh, speech and debate in high school. Okay. Um, and that wasn't where I wanted to go. I, I didn't want to be an attorney. In fact, dad asked me if I wanted to go to law school after I got my degree from the University of Missouri in journalism. And I said, no, dad, I, I've had it with. Schooling. I wanna go to work.

I want to be a broadcaster. So that was a, there was never any intent to be a lawyer or even for that matter, to, to be, you know, a motivational speaker or anything like that. It was just always broadcasting. Okay. And then you're calling, so, so at, at un you're calling some high school games Yeah. At that point, and you're kind of, you're kind of building up to other, to other things there.

And so you, so you graduate from, um mm-hmm. , and then in 19, and that's in 1969. Mm-hmm. . And then in 1970, you were, I guess still in the, in the middle of Vietnam. Mm-hmm. . And you're, you're drafted. Yes. And then you're, the Army assigned you as a specialist for to the, uh, to the Armed Forces Vietnam Network. Yes.

But, but that was, but you were, you had already been there for a little, A little bit, yes. So what, what were your duties then, before you were assigned to that? And then how did that assign assignment come about? . Good question. Uh, I, I'm gonna backtrack a little bit because my first job after college, Diane and I got married right after college, 1969.

San Antonio. Yeah. San Antonio. So I was at San Antonio, w o a i t v, and I was a news reporter. Okay. And so I'd go out and cover shootings and stabbings in city hall. And, you know, I, I hated it. I hated the job. I wanted to do sports. Mm-hmm. , they would not let me do sports. They'd let me go out and shoot film of sports.

Mm-hmm.  and write stories for the sports cast. But they wouldn't let me go on the air and present the sports cast because my boss, the news director, said, you look too young. . Mm. And I said, well, uh, I thought we were trying to attract a young audience on tv. He said, well, you're just not, uh, believable. It's a credibility issue.

So I would, uh, prepare the entire weekend sportscast, and, and the news anchor would have to read it. And he didn't want to do that either. So he was pushing for me to go on there also. But they never would, uh, never would relent on that. So actually it was a break for me that I got drafted, went into the Army.

Mm-hmm. , and then wound up going to Vietnam, because that was the first time I got to be a sportscaster . And that was, and the Army gave you, sorry, the Army gave you your first big career break. That's right. Essentially. So, uh, to begin with, to answer your question, um, you know, you land in, in country in Vietnam and you, you land, um, at, uh, long Bend.

Mm-hmm. , and, uh, that's where I wound up working because, uh, the way it operates, you know, a as, as a, uh, draftee. And I had, um, some time at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. Mm-hmm.  spent about eight months there and, and I was a broadcast specialist there. So I, and I was in my field, you know, a lot of times that wasn't the case in the Army.

You were put in some other area, not, uh, comfortable to you at all. Not in your field of endeavor. But in this case it worked for me. And, um, so when I landed in Vietnam, you know, you, you got the 14 hour flight, you're talking to some other guy next to you who's in the same shoes. You don't know what you're gonna be doing.

You land there. And, and, um, somebody had flagged me from the long been, uh, public Information office because what they do is look at resumes and say, oh, this guy's trained to be a broadcast specialist. We need that right now. So total luck. Otherwise, I could have been out in the jungle in a platoon, you know, carrying a rifle.

Yeah. And you didn't know until you got there what, what your assignment was going to be? So very, very fortunate. I was working in an air conditioned building. I had a blanket travel orders. So what I would do is go out in the field and I'd interview soldiers. And so, you know, if you're a Sergeant Greg Randolph, and you're from Omaha, Nebraska, I'm doing an interview with you and I'm sending the tape back to your hometown radio station, and they're playing it on the air to let people know what Greg Randolph is doing in Vietnam,

Wow. And that was, yeah. So that was a, it was a good job. I enjoyed that job. But then there was a chance to transfer to Saigon, to a f BN and do sports. And that was the big break there. Okay. When I've transferred there. Ah, very good. So, so what was the, what was the technology like back then, and how, how did that present challenges at, at that time?

I mean, that's, that's just what those, those mediums were, but how did that, how did that affect what you, what you were able to do?  at, at that time? Good question. Um, I had, uh, my own office at Long Bend and I had, uh, big tape machines. I had, we had the reel to reel tape machines back in those days, and I had, uh, small cassette recorders that I would take with me out in the field, and then we'd transferred them over to the reel to reel tape machines and do editing.

And so if I wanted to do a voiceover and then put your voice in and then introduce something else about your, what you were doing in Vietnam, and then put more of your voice in, there'd be some editing for that. I had a little booth where I could record my own voice and, and, uh, assemble the tapes and then put it all into one package and sent it out to the radio station.

Of course, then it was mail, uh, he was, he was sending. A reel to reel small tape out in the mail to Omaha, Nebraska. Uh, so that's how the technology is different now. When I got to, um, af the n we did radio and TV live. Uh, we had several radio sports casts today. Sometimes we had 15 minute sports casts.

These went to the troops out in the field. So the guys out at the fire base in Quinn Yn could turn on a transistor and hear our broadcast. Okay. Or if they were actually working in an office in Quinn Yn, they could watch on tv. The TV sportscast. So one, uh, well the only winner I was there was 71. Mm-hmm.

and, uh, major League Baseball. Uh, cooperates with the USO to send ball players over to Vietnam. . So, uh, Bobby Bonds and Doc Ellis come over on a tour and I interview them on tv. Uh, and that was a big thrill. Of course, at that time, I really hadn't had availability to Major League players. This was my first big shot at that.

So yeah, it was a, this was a tremendous break for me to be, you know, people say Vietnam, that yes, it was, because then when I got back from Vietnam, I wound up getting a job in Cincinnati. Right. And it was, you know, I think, I think maybe the tape that I sent to Cincinnati's, uh, TV station, W lw t tv, where I worked mm-hmm.

uh, might have been influential in getting that job. Who knows? Well, and then certainly you were, when you, when you got there, you.  to the station in Cincinnati. It's 1972. And you worked with a gentleman who was the radio voice of the Cincinnati Bengals gentleman named Phil Sam. Mm-hmm. , can you talk about how he influenced you and, and about his stopwatch technique?

Yeah, he was great. Um, Phil, uh, was the, the old school type of broadcaster who just, uh, assumed the first day that I was gonna be able to handle this. We talked about the basics of it. He didn't try to tell me how to do the job or anything else. He just said, well, here's what you need to do. These are the times you need to do your radio and TV sportscast.

These are the deadlines for you to get your scripts in. This is how you put your film together and your tape and all these things, and go get 'em. And, uh, he did the Bengals. So he was gone all well for six weeks, I think, in, uh, training camp in Wilmington, Ohio. He just lived in the dorm up there with the Bengals.

So I had to do his sports casts for him during that time, which was great training for me. Mm-hmm. , I got a lot of airtime on radio and tv, but uh, and I did the general manager's show with Bob Housen, the general manager of the Cincinnati Reds once a week. So these were all, uh, great bits of exposure for me to life in a big league city, which I'd never had before.

Right. And I spent a lot of time at Riverfront watching games and so I took my little recorder down and if I was doing the six and 11 o'clock TV sports cast, I'd go down for maybe an hour and a half in between those two sports cast and I'd take my little recorder and I'd go in an empty booth and get the notes for the game and take a stab at doing two or three innings and play by play.

Cuz that's really what I wanted to do someday. Right. But, uh, the sports casting job there was, was fantastic. That was a huge break to be there. And of course the reds were great at that point, and the Bengals were good. So it was, it was a good time to be in Cincinnati. How did you know that that play by play was on the horizon for you at that time?

I really didn't. Um, this job is so unpredictable and so many things happened that looking back, you shake your head and wonder, well, how, how was I so fortunate? You know, God was looking after me. There was no doubt about that because there were many people, you know, Phil Sam had a great voice and he was very natural on the air, and I would watch him do that show and think, well, he's never gonna leave here and I'm never gonna get his job.

But that really wasn't the job I wanted anyway. And I'd listened to the Reds and the year I got there, Al Michaels was their play by play guy on radio. And I would think, well, I'm never gonna get his job. He is just absolutely the best I've heard. So it would go like that, and then you'd look back now on it and say, well, you know, there were so many people even who weren't doing those jobs who were better than I was.

I don't know how I'm so lucky. And then the answer is that God looked after me. You know? I just had a lot of blessings. Always. Yeah. Yes, sir. So you got to work in, so in 19 seven, so in the, in the early seventies years, this, this show that you, that you have, that's a pregame show mm-hmm. With a, with before Red's broadcast.

Mm-hmm.  was called Red Scene. Yep. And you got to work with, with Sparky Anderson. Yeah. Can you talk about your relationship with him, your friendship with him, and then how he had a very keen internal sense of timing to get, to get you the clip that you needed. Oh, yeah. Sparky was the best. He, he reminded a lot of the national writers who would write articles about him in books.

About the, uh, reds of, uh, Casey Stle because he loved the media. He knew how to, uh, manipulate, if you will, the media to get his message out. For instance, he loved being asked tough questions. So he had his daily managers show on the pre-game radio program, and he wanted Al Michaels or Marty Brennaman to ask him, why did you pinch hit for so and so in the seventh inning?

And John McNamara, who succeeded him, did not even do a pre-game radio show because he hated to be asked questions like that on his strategy. But, um, it gave Sparky a chance to explain himself to the fans. So I think it was very astute on his part to want to have that opportunity. Sure. But he was great with anybody.

Uh, you know, if, if you were a newspaper writer from Evansville in Illinois and you came to four games a year,  and you went to the PR director, Jim Ferguson, sort of like to sit down with Sparky. He'd sit down with him and then he'd give him, you know, 20 minutes or whatever. And then the New York Times would have somebody come in the next day and he'd give that guy 20 minutes.

So he was very fair and equitable with his time, no matter your stature and the gang, young broadcaster didn't know the game. Very patient with you. Very patient with me. We did, uh, it was about 12 red scenes a year and, uh, we did a TV show that was a half an hour leading into the TV game. Okay. So if we're in Philadelphia, Sparky would be on with me if the game started at seven 30 Cincinnati time, like at 7 25 till about 7 28.

Mm-hmm. , and you might, you're looking at me like really a manager would do a live show that close to game time. I don't, I don't know if anybody else had this. I didn't see it. But he agreed to do a live show about three minutes right before the ball game like that. And it's not that the managers, you know, has to do a lot of prep or he is worried or praying or anything like that, it's, it's kind of downtime.

It's kind of just waiting for the game to start. Everything's been done. But still, most managers wouldn't do that, that close to game time. And, um, he was just tremendous. He, you know, the thing I always say about Sparky is he was such a good human being. Um, if the Reds were on a road trip and they got back from the west coast, we'll say the next day they were off, he would go to Children's Hospital and visit some kids.

And, uh, he never wanted any publicity on this at all. Just didn't want any, uh, anything written about it. He didn't want any photos. He just wanted that to be his time with the kids. And that, I think that speaks to, uh, the kind of person he was. So, you know, you can't ignore this when you're young and impressionable.

Right. And, uh, you know, you see, you know, somebody who's a real big figure in the game has a lot of stature in the game, is willing to do the things that, that we all hope that everybody does, but we know they don't. Right. , that, that certainly speaks volumes about the kind of man that he was. Yeah. He was, he was also a good baseball man and, and a little bit of a character maybe.

Am I, am I saying that right? Oh, you are saying it right. So, so if you were, let's say he talked to four different reporters before a game and they all asked him the same question, he would give all of them a little bit different answers so they'd all have their own particular story that no one else had

Yeah. Oh, good stuff. Yeah. Good stuff. So, so 1975 ends, you're, you're coming off the, so the Reds Wind World Series over the Red Sox. Mm-hmm.  and. , what was, what was that World series like? And then how did that, how did that change the organization? And then what you did and your, and going into 76, which is your, your first, your first year as the full-time play by play announcement for the Reds.

Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Yeah. The timing was credible. Looking back on it now, for me it was just incredibly lucky. But in, in 1970, the Reds had made it to the World Series and lost to Baltimore. Right? 72, my first year there, uh, they lost in Game seven to Oakland. Mm-hmm.  Great World Series. And in 73 they made it to the playoffs, lost to the Mets.

So now 75 comes and this team that's been known as the Big Red Machine since 1970 is starting to have, you know, these conversations with each other along the way of, Hey, you know, we haven't won a World Series yet. We're the big red machine. We're not really living up to that. It's time that we won a World Series.

So there was pressure that they were applying to themselves to finish the deal. And, uh, 75 brought a great team. You know, they won 108 games. They, they would beat teams, you know, 10 to, uh, a lot of these games were not even close. They were just so superior to other teams. Their, their lineup was incredible.

Their defensive play is underrated. They were a great defensive team. The pitching was good, but not great. It didn't have to be great because of the hitting they had. Right. And yet their, their bullpen was very good. So when they had had to protect a one run, , they did that very well. And so it was a big deal for them to finally finish that off and win that World Series at 75.

Although he, you know, the, the Carlton Fisk Home run in game six, that beat them in the 12th inning of Fenway Park was interesting, uh, because that pushed it to a seventh game. And then Joe Morgan's, uh, single in the seventh inning beat the Red Sox four to three in the seventh game and  because of, uh, the way television portrayed the fifth home run, which was great.

It was a great portrayal. Uh, this was the memorable moment of that World Series for many people. And so, as Johnny Bench said on a documentary about him, he said, well, the Red Sox. Have always said they won that series three games to four . That's about the way it was portrayed. But you know, nobody ever remembers Joe Morgan's single that won the World Series.

So, you know, that's fine with people in Cincinnati. They brought home the trophy. There was a big parade on Fountain Square and it was a huge deal. And then, so to get that job, uh, doing their play by play in 76 was just, you know, beyond, I, I had filled in on a few games, but I had also been passed over for the job a few years earlier.

And typically the job was not, at that point we were only doing about 40 games a year on television. People might not remember that if they're, if they're old enough to remember anything from that time. Uh, but we just, you know, the Reds did not want more games televised than that. They just thought it cut into their attendance and they wouldn't agree to it.

And, uh, we only did three home games a year. And we couldn't promote any of those home games beforehand. So they were just, they were just really worried that, uh, you know, they were a regional franchise. Cincinnati was one of the smallest markets. They just thought people would stay home and watch on tv and it would cost them at the gate and they wouldn't allow it.

And then, then of course, cable came along in the early eighties and that changed everything. But, um, it was a big deal still to, to get that job. And, um, I knew that they had passed me over before for it. So, um, I worked as hard as I could to hold onto it. Very good. Yeah. Very good. So, so, so let me jump back just a bit to 1972.

I, I apologize, I I missed this. So, so in 1972, towards the end of the season, they make a last, the reds make a last, or the station makes a last minute decision to, to air the possible division clenching game. Yes. And it's actually in Houston at the Astrodome. Yeah. So what were your impressions of the Astrodome at that time?

And then, then how. How much of a challenge of calling that, that night inning by yourself was that I was, uh, absolutely petrified, but, uh, Diane and I had been to the Astrodome once the year we were in San Antonio, 69. We came over to a game, the station had tickets and we, we drove over, as I recall, that afternoon and went back that night after the game.

So a lot of driving, but, but definitely, you know, the Astrodome was a place you had to see if you were able to, in any fashion and, and from anywhere in the state of Texas, and it was worth it. So, uh, I had been there before, but, uh, the, the suddenness of that game was, uh, you know, beyond any preparation that you could have had because they decided, you know, we were here in Houston, the Reds at that point traveled quite a bit commercially, and so they would travel the day of a game.

yes, the players hated it, but we'd leave at, you know, nine o'clock in the morning, uh, to make sure we got there for a night game and players hated getting up and, you know, driving to the airport and all that, that sort of thing. And, you know, believe me, some of the rest of us were not big fans either, but that's the way they did it to save money and, you know, compared to the money spent on a chart flight, that is a substantial savings when you multiply it by any number of flights throughout the year.

So that's what they did. And, um, we got in and it was, we were at the hotel and PR director said, you wanna take the tour of the Astrodome? I said, yeah, because we weren't supposed to be televising the game. And we got back and it was, you know, four o'clock in the afternoon and we got, we're, well, we're adding the game to the schedule tonight.

And so we went from that, from not even expecting to be on the air and doing my first major league. So Tom Hedrick was the play-by-play guy, and he said, have you done baseball before? I said No. And he said, okay. And he was very calm about it. And his nickname was The Parrot because he really overtalked for tv.

He was a, he was a Kansas City Chiefs play-by-play guy on the radio, very good, very good at that. And, um, he worked with Wade Hoyt on tv, the Hall of Fame, Yankee pitcher. And Wade was in the hospital. So that's the reason I was filling in and I was petrified. And so knowing that Tom would carry the mail, I just didn't talk much at all.

Uh, I, I didn't wanna say the wrong thing. And uh, then after the eighth inning, the producer said, well Tom, you're gonna have to go down to the field now for interviews. If we win the game and clinch, then we want you interviewing the players. So he took off and I looked around and there wasn't anybody else in the booth.

And I was doing play by, play the night thing with a four to three lead. And Clay Carroll, the closer walked the basis loaded.  so that I, I I couldn't tell you, Greg, one word of what I said that night. I have no idea what I said that night, but it was a big thrill. Would it have made a little more sense to, to maybe send you down to the field of the clubhouse and get the reaction and let, let Tom finish the play by play in, in one sense, yes.

Uh, but in another sense, did I know the players well, I had, I had done interviews with a lot of 'em before, but you know, I was brand new to the telecast and I think they figured he had been a part of everything all year long and he deserved this. And, uh, I, I'll tell you what, I don't think they put much thought into putting me on there, doing play by.

but, uh, it worked out. At least I didn't get fired, so I guess it worked out.

ver very good. Very good. Well, let me, let me get, um, let me get back over to over to 75 and 76 and those big red machine years and, and so what was the, we we talked about the team a a little bit with, you know, them putting the pressure on themselves to, to win, to win a championship. Hey, we're the, we're the big red machine.

We've got this. Look at our infield mm-hmm.  for crying out loud. Mm-hmm.  in addition to everyone else. So did they just feel unstoppable? And is that really just a, just the main thing that a team like that has when they're at that level and they're in their mindset of the winning? Yeah. They knew they were gonna win.

They, they weren't quite sure how they knew they were gonna hit. They were gonna score runs even against the best pitching around. Uh, I will say that when they came to the Astrodome to play the Astros, , uh, you know, when it got to that point that they had, uh, you know, in, in 80, we'll say, when they came here and they had to face, you know, Ryan and Nero and Richard in a three game series, you know, those hitters were talking about what a difficult assignment that was because a lot of 'em found it difficult to see the ball in he astro go.

Anyway, it was the only dome stadium at that time. It's, it was darker. They couldn't pick up the ball as well. And then just the, the caliber of the pitching and then the, the difficulty of hitting the ball out, which was, you know, that that was a team that just crushed the ball. Home runs, doubles, triples, and doubles and triples were pretty common in the Astrodome.

Home runs were not. So they knew it was gonna be difficult time and that was more of a, you know, three to two win if they were gonna win it than a 10 to four win. You know what I mean? And they really had to scratch for, for their runs and pitch well. So, um, I, I think they knew they would win. They, they just had the confidence with, you know, I mean they had all these Hall of Famers, you know, Johnny Bench is, is quite possibly the best catcher who ever lived.

Uh, you can't prove that, but a lot of people believe it. Uh, Pete Rose, if not for the gambling, would certainly be a Hall of Famer. The all time hit King. And then Tony Perez is the Hall of Famer. He, he drove in the tough runs. He was the best clutch hitter on the team. Joe Morgan, back to back MVP 75, 76. And he's the guy who really, um, accelerated the offense with his combination of speed and hitting and drawing walks.

Um, good. You know, I mean you're talking about gold glove guys, Morgan cep, Cesar on center field, bench up the middle, uh, just a fantastic all around team. Griff Toll and all those guys. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Very good. Very good. So, um, so. . So the, so the big red machine, the, the, the titles and the Yankees come on. They start to, they start their championship run.

Mm-hmm. . So, so in 1978, the Reds management decides that they're gonna start making some really large wholesale changes. So they let, they let Sparky Anderson go, Pete Rose moves on to Philadelphia, Tony Perez moves on to the Montreal Expos. And so you lose all that, that talent and that leadership, Tom Siever comes over in a trade from the Mets.

Mm-hmm.  and certainly not a bad consolation prize, but, but the dynamics of the organization and, and the team have changed quite a bit at that time. So how did that, how did that affect, affect your relationship with the players and then the fans of the broadcast? I thought it was good. Um, you know, they had to work really hard to win that 79 division title from the Astros that went down to, to the end of September.

And, uh, was sever there. And, you know, we had some young pitchers, uh, Frank past story, Doug Capella, uh, it was more of a, , low scoring type win that they had to get. Then Ray Knight stepped up and he was one of the real leaders of the team, offensively and defensively, but, uh, they were missing that firepower that you talked about.

Those guys who left and, you know, Vince, uh, had a lot of games under his belt and, um, he had some injuries as most catchers do after all those games. And he wound up later on moving to play third base, you know, and, and to, to get his, uh, get his knees out from behind the plate. But, uh, they, they were a very gritty team.

Sever was a big part of it. He was a lot of fun to be around. Ray Knight was always a guy I enjoyed. Um, and I thought the players were very, very good. Um, they just, um, you know, back in those days you got to know players a little bit more than you do now. Now they're, you know, agents are very prominent and.

And ball clubs kind of give players a pass on the media. They'll only make them available at certain times before a game or after a game. And, and back then you could walk in the clubhouse and talk to just about anybody. It was pretty freewheeling for the media, so we got to know each other pretty well.

We had a guy named Mike Lum, who was an outfielder. He was a backup outfielder, and he did magic tricks. And we had dinner with him and his wife one time, and he, he had this really sharp metal object that he poked all the way through a balloon and it didn't pop. So yeah, he, he'd pull some magic tricks like that and very entertaining guy.

But that was back in the days when you got to know people a little bit better. No, absolutely. Yeah. So, so you stayed with the Reds with Cincinnati until 1980. . Mm-hmm. . And then 1987, you take the full-time role with, with the Astros. Mm-hmm. . But, but between there, between that time you moved to Pittsburgh mm-hmm.

and you take a job with f Fnn score. Right. And they send you to Los Angeles. Right. You're there for a little bit. And then you take a job with Paychex out there. And then, and they, and, and towards the end of 1986, you, you've reconnected with Dick Wagner. Mm-hmm. , whom you knew from the Reds. Right. You interviewed for the Astros job out when you're out there in Los Angeles.

Mm-hmm. . So can you, can you talk about, about how your time in in Cincinnati prepared you as well as that, as well as those years off? How did, how did those, how did that time prepare you for your next job with Astros? Well, I got fired in Cincinnati after 82. We lost 101 games. I, I didn't do a very good job, I must confess, but the year before 81, the strike year, the Reds actually had the best record in baseball.

But, uh, when you. Parsed the two partial seasons together, and they didn't win either half, so they weren't in the playoffs. So the, the total wins didn't really matter. They lost the first half of the season by I think a half game and game and a half the second half. So it was a pretty big shock to go for the best record in baseball to 101 losses.

And, uh, obviously the TV ratings were down and, you know, uh, I, I will confess, I didn't do a very good job that year either of handling all the losses. So I got fired and I had signed a three year contract right before that. But it wasn't the type of contract you're thinking about. It didn't guarantee payment for three years.

It, uh, stated in the contract, you're going to think I'm a knucklehead for signing this, that every, uh, I think it was every 13 weeks they could cancel it . So that wasn't much of a three. It was a three year commitment on my end, but a 13 week commitment on their end. Well, I just had confidence that. , they would abide by the three year deal, and they did it for some reason.

They changed their mind and I wasn't as good and they wanted somebody else. So, you know that that's our business. That that is the what you expect, uh, to have to deal with someday unless you're really, really good or really, really fortunate. So, uh, I was scrambling around, got the job in Pittsburgh. Um, that company went out of business after one year.

Okay. Went to la um, you know, I went back to Cincinnati for a year to work, uh, in cable TV this time with, uh, the, uh, sports time cable network. And, uh, that company went out of business after one year. Then we went to LA and been there for a couple years and that company didn't look very good to me either, and I kind of knew what it was like to be handed a final paycheck and I could see the signs that led up to that.

So I thought, well, I'm gonna need to get something else. . And fortunately Dick Wagner came out and was on a show with me when the Astros were in town. And then he called me a few months later and said, would you be interested in our job? And, and, uh, oh man, I was thrilled to get back into baseball at that point.

I hadn't been in baseball for the last five years Right. And didn't think I would ever get back in. And I was preparing to do the paychecks thing and, you know, let's get an eight to five job and, and that's gonna be the rest of my working career probably, you know, reality sets in and you realize how fortunate you were to have those years on the air.

So, um, it just, they narrowed it down to three of us. They flew all three of us in for interviews. They had us all put our voice and our play by play on a videotape of a game for the previous year and do three innings. And so the final three in the contests were all doing the same three innings of the same game, and they could compare.

Is that fair? Well, that's the way they chose to do it. I, I. Yeah, I'm not gonna knock the process. I wouldn't do it that way. I just think, you know, after the miles of videotape that had been sent you by each guy to look at, you had more of an idea of what his whole body of work was than three innings of Yeah.

But it did put everybody under pressure. And, uh, so I was lucky enough to get the job and it was a, it was such a blessing to me, but I didn't get hired until February and the job started in about two weeks after I got hired in sprint training doing radio. So that was a crash course, right. But, you know, it was easy because the players were so good.

Craig Reynolds, Terry Pool, Mike Scott, Kevin Bass, all those guys were fantastic. And, uh, they really, really made it easy. . I can, I can certainly see that. Yeah, I can certainly see that. So, so what were the, what was the excitement like in the later years of the Astrodome and you've, you've seen Visio Bagwell, Kati through their, their careers and their, their veterans now, and they're leading the, kind of, leading the charge in those late nineties division championships.

Mm-hmm. . Well, you know, it was fun to watch Vio come up as a catcher and be an all star and, uh, we, we would always wonder about, well, what about his speed? How's catching gonna affect his, his speed and stealing bases? And he's a small guy and, you know, art, how you've talked to on your earlier podcast was worried about him getting knocked into the nickels seats by Dave Parker on a home plate collision or something like that.

And that, that's a legitimate worry back in the days when there were home plate collisions. So I wondered about that too, but I certainly didn't see him moving to second base because he had played a little outfield and I thought, well, that'll probably stick him in left field and that way. , his offense will be good and um, his legs will not be subjected to the challenges of all the crouching and, you know, the metal wear and tear and, you know, they'll get more games from Craig Bideo than they would as a catcher.

So that was fun to watch. And then Bagwell came along and I looked at him that spring playing some third base and Katti playing some third base. And I thought, well, he's nowhere close to Katti defensively, I don't know what they're gonna do here. And uh, little did I know they would think about moving into first base, but that was a stroke of genius and to his credit, he was able to make that transition very quickly.

Sure. Uh, so I think, I think those are the two big memories for those guys that, um, cuz I'd seen Pete Rose play five different positions and was an all-star at all five in Cincinnati. And, and you're not gonna see that again, but just the idea that this is what the team needs you to do.  was so impressive to me.

And, and some players would've said, no, I'm a third baseman, or I'm a catcher and that's what I am. And that's happened many times in baseball. But these two guys said, okay, I'll give it a shot. And wound up in the Hall of Fame. Absolutely. And with, with Bagwell, he, he was, he, by his own admission, he's, you know, he said, well, I'm, I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I can figure out that, you know, do you wanna be a first baseman in the majors or a third baseman in, in the minors?

Yeah. Yeah. He told me in one interview, well, yeah, I, I didn't go to Harvard, I went to Hartford, but I could still figure out this is a better shot for me because he said, my dad said, uh, well, okay. After looking at Cam and Eddie here, uh, AAA is not so bad. Jeff

Absolutely. Absolutely. We had that, uh, that certainly turned out very well. So, so let me talk about the, about, about moving from, uh, we talked about the, about the Astrodome being a, a tough place to hit anyway, you know, you know, tough pitchers, you know, it's, it's darker in there. Mm-hmm. . And so you, so the team finished this plane in the Astrodome in 1999, 2000.

The Astros moved to, to the park. At Union Station. Mm-hmm. . So what was, how did that, how did that change with the, with the new dimensions of the stadium and sunlight and just have it, and it's a different, a, a different atmosphere. How did that, how did that change your approach to broadcasting then? I, I love the move because I thought it was great for the city to have this downtown ballpark.

I thought it was great to have a, a retractable. , although I am disappointed they don't open the roof more. Uh, and then it was a totally different style of baseball. We knew there'd be more offense, but of course, until you've been in a park for a while, it's hard to really say how it's gonna play out. Well, you know, they set a record for Run scored and for home runs in the National League.

And so I didn't think it would be that drastic, but part of it was the pitchers were just shell-shocked, especially Jose Lima. All the home run he gave up. And the, the hitters, a lot of them had a banner, you know, Richard Hogo baggy. They just had banner years cranking home runs and, and, uh, yet they had a losing record.

So the pitching just wasn't good enough to hold up for them. And at that point I wondered, oh boy, what have we created here? Uh, because. Doing the games was absolutely the opposite of doing the Astrodome games. You know, I've always loved three to two ball games. I love the stolen bass being a factor and the sacrifice, but being a factor and the ground ball to the right side with the runner, its second and nobody out being a factor and great defensive plays, win games and things of that nature.

And that, that doesn't happen the first year at Enron field, that does not happen. You're playing, you know, 10 to eight ball games and it's a slug fest. And so obviously the games are a lot longer. The broadcasts are a lot longer. Yes, there's the excitement of a lot more run scoring, but I don't look at it that way.

As a broadcaster, I very get very excited about a three to two ball game because every pitch is so much more important than it is in a 10 to eight ball game. Now sure, if you have, uh, the offensive capabilities that, that all teams had at Enron field in 2000, there are gonna be big comebacks. They're gonna be exciting games.

But there are also gonna be a lot of blowout games. And for me, I think the best, uh, opportunity for a fan to enjoy a game is to have a close competitive game. And so with a two to one, three to two, four to two type ball game, there's that excitement on every pitch that it could change. And then you have some different dimensions too.

We, you talked about the short porch and left, and then you also have TAs Hill with the flagpole and play at center field. Right. So that changed some of that play as well. Yeah. I loved having, uh, TAs Hill. I thought it gave us a lot to talk about. It gave us some interesting highlights and, uh, it was just a whole different dimension.

So I was sad that they did away with TAs Hill. I, I still would like to see it, but I understand the players didn't like it, but I think the fans loved it. Absolutely. . Absolutely. So, so jumping ahead to, I'm sorry, let's see, 2004, 2005. Mm-hmm. , you have the. , the Astros contending for and winning division and league championships at that, at that time.

So, so when, so, and then, and then back to the Reds a little bit too. So how, how much easier does it make your job as a broadcaster when the team is in that position to, to win a clinch and possibly have that, that type of year? It really does your job for you. Uh, you know, you, you don't really even have to, to do your job in terms of working more to come up.

You know, if, if you're with a last place team, that's work, you've gotta sit there and think, well, okay, if we get blown out, if we're down nine to one and the fifth inning tonight, what am I gonna talk about? And so maybe you do some research and come up with a story that you haven't told or something, you know, just what's going on with another team in baseball.

That's interesting. That's because this game is not , you know, and that sort of thing. But if you're in the hunt like that, and you know,  Astros, I think they won 18 straight at home at the end of oh four. And you know, tho those games just do themselves. They play out. Uh, there, there's no need to work very hard at that.

You just let the game unfold. Um, but that, that was a great time. And, you know, people ask sometimes, well, what's your, you know, your most favorite call or anything like that. And I, I would say, well, we don't have a lot of the big moments on TV because the networks do the post-season games. And so I would go back to oh four, the last game of the regular season when the Astros had to win to make the playoffs.

Or oh five, same thing. So those two years in a row, and then 99, the last game there in the dome to get into the playoffs, all those three years. I, I think the final game of the regular season on TV was probably, uh, ranking up there for me, among my favorites. And, um, you know, there were so many post-season moments that, of course the guys on radio get 'em all.

So they had a great time and they're still having a great time with those . So, so in 2007, you've got the call for, uh, for Craig Visios, 3000th career hit at home. And so in, in typical visual fashion, he takes that hit and he tries to stretch it into a double. Yeah. So, so to, to watch his entire career and to have a chance to, to call that, to, to call that moment and be behind the mic for that.

What is, what is that like when you do have a milestone achievement or a, or a team achievement as a broadcaster? And then how do you let that moment play out a little bit and not, and not come in over the top of it intentionally or not? Mm-hmm. , I, I think that was one of my biggest blessings with the Astros was, uh, doing the whole career of Bidon Bagwell.

You know, that's, that's a rarity. 20 years for Craig, 15 years for Jeff. Uh, In these days of players moving on to other teams and broadcasters moving on to other teams, that doesn't happen a whole lot. Uh, I wish I had done some things differently. I'm not gonna beat myself up over it on Craig's head. I think I, uh, got caught up in the moment.

I think I did too much of a radio style descriptive call about where he hit the ball and what was going on, because people can obviously see that on tv. You don't need to describe it, but I was just so pumped and so hyped for the moment. You know, this, this career achievement thing. And um, this friend of mine who does, uh, did the Colorado Rockies, uh, Wayne Hagan had had lunch with me when we were in Colorado a couple weeks before that hit.

And he said, well, have you thought about your call of the 3000th hit coming up? I said, I don't believe you can script anything like that. I think you just have to let it unfold, uh, because it's a scripted call, just falls flat, so I don't want to do that. And he said, well, I think you need to think about it because this is one of the biggest moments in the history of your franchise.

And, and you know, this call is gonna be replayed a lot down through the years, so give it some thought. Well, now he's got me, you know, twisting myself into all kinds of metal gymnastics about, you know, he's got me worried now for the next two weeks and I'm trying to come up with a line, not during the hit, but afterwards, okay, we've gotta do something to stamp this and make this distinctive for, you know, future posterity and all this sort of thing.

So, um, I just, I, I hadn't been able to come up with anything We got back from Milwaukee the night before.  and I'm driving in the garage and finally this line that I've been looking for kind of came to me and I wound up tacking it on after the hit, after the crowd, uh, reaction. And the people on the field with Craig and his family and everybody celebrating the, the, uh, crowd noise kind of died down at that point.

I said something to the effect of, um, well that's hit number 3000 for a man who was born in a small town in New York and that will send him to another small town in New York, Cooperstown someday, something like that. And, uh, so that's what came to me, but it couldn't be a part of the actual call of the.

Yeah, it, it was kind of a buzz kill the hit itself because he was out at second base. You know, we all wanted him to have another double, which was his, you know, uh, signature career hit does right by right-handed hitter. Nobody's had that many. So, um, uh, when, when he was thrown out at second, everybody knew he was gonna go to second base, but Willie Tavaris threw him out.

And, uh, so it was this, it was this, uh, high, and then it came down a little bit lower when he was thrown out, but then you had to bring it back up again because it was such a great career achievement. So that was the challenge of that call. I can imagine. So, so how did you get it? How did you bring it, how did you bring that emotion back up at the time, I just, I, I think I said,  and he is out at second base, but that's hit number 3000, or I think I'd said 3000, but that's whatever else I said after that.

So I've just tried to, to just, uh, pull out of that low mm-hmm.  there very quickly and, and turn it into a more of a positive. So that, that was all I could say. You know, I mean, things are happening so quickly and you can't possibly rehearse this stuff. It's just the moment , and you have to let that happen naturally and organically.

Yes. You have to let it happen naturally and organically, and I'm sure there could have been a better way to do it, but it's history now , and it turned in, it turned out so great. Thank you. You're welcome. Can you talk about how enjoyable it was to, to work in baseball and just the amazing, I'll use the word confluence of, of people.

I, I think that's, um, looking back on it now, uh, was such a blessing to me and, you know, um, . We ha I, I'm not trying to make this bigger than it is certainly, but, uh, we just had a meeting with the president's council of, uh, KSBJ at the Christian radio station, and we talked about, uh, what, you know, what can we do, what can K Ksbj do to, uh, deal with the issues in our community right now and in our world right now that that can, uh, somehow be a help to, uh, our listeners and, and to society in general.

You know, how do we deal with this? And we talked about things like road rage and, and people's, um, incivility to other people, uh, how people treat each other, uh, not very well. Uh, how they refused to work together, you know, politicians and what have, so we, we got off onto a lot of heavy mm-hmm.  topics that are definitely topics of the day.

Well, you know, I'm thinking back and I was so lucky that I've been in baseball for all these years and. , you know, you, you walk into a clubhouse now and one of the things we talked about was, Hey, Houston is at the forefront of where the rest of the country's gonna be in 20 years, a melting pot. We have more and more people, uh, from other countries who are here.

We have more and more Hispanics. Uh, we have more and more Asians. And you walk into a major league clubhouse and that's what you see and that's what you've always seen. Sure. So, you know, since Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier, and, and of course we had a lot more blacks playing in the seventies when I started, and I wish there were more blacks playing now, but some things you can't control.

So, um, and it's all, when you walk in that clubhouse, it doesn't really matter where you came from or what you've done. There's a game today, you know, and not, not us, but the players, you know, They've gotta find a way to work together and win this game today. That's their sole mission. So what I take from, uh, being blessed to be around this is, Hey, no matter what you do, uh, this is today, this is all we're guaranteed.

Let's do the best we can to work together and, you know, make this a better place today. If we can't. Now that's an oversimplification, but I just think that that another thing we talked about in the meeting, uh, is people are in a hurry right now. They're in a big hurry. Uh, it's hard for them to analyze what they're doing while they're doing it and look ahead and see what might be the significance of what they're doing.

And so, um, to me, baseball just simplifies all that. And then, okay, you lose a tough. You gotta, uh, if you're the players or, or us, okay, pack up, get on the bus. If you're leaving town, go to the next city. It gives you that mental closure, all right, this was a really tough day. Or maybe you had a tough broadcaster, whatever.

You know, you got a problem at home, somebody's sick at home, you've gotta travel, you want to be there for 'em. You can't, that is not something that is under your control. . You've gotta get on this bus and get on that plane and move on. So you've gotta bring some closure to this difficult day and focus on what's ahead.

And that to me is just a baseball mimics life in so many ways. Um, and in that, in that sense of trying to refocus every day, I think it's helpful. I can certainly see that. And no matter, and to your point, no matter what else is going on, that next game is coming. Whether, whether you're ready for it or not.

Yep. . And that's, and that's just how it's, it's gonna come. And if you're still dwelling on what happened yesterday, it's not gonna go well for you. Usually you, you need to refocus and, and, you know, shove that into the back recesses of your mind and just look ahead and do what you can do now. You can't do anything about what just happened.

Absolutely. Yeah. And that's all any of us can do. Yeah. So can you talk, I want to talk about the actual job that, that you did on a, on a, on a, on a game day basis. Mm-hmm. . So what was, can, can you tell us what a, a day at the ballpark was like? So you park in the garage and, and you walk in, and then can you take us from there with, with, with the first thing that you're, that you're gonna do?

Sure. And first let me say that it begins when you get up in the morning, uh, you know, typical job of, uh, of a broadcaster is, uh, you're watching highlight shows in the morning from the night before. Uh, you're reading the morning paper, you're getting online and, uh, checking different things. You've got emails from the producer of the telecast, Hey, this is, uh, some of the material we're gonna be presenting on the air in this game.

Uh, you go over that pretty quickly, get your, some of your scorebook filled out. And so a lot of the prep is done before you ever get to that garage. A lot of it, I mean, hours goes into it before you ever walk into that garage. Then you know, you go, uh, usually the first thing you would do if you're a broadcaster is go from your car to the club directly to the clubhouse.

Get the lineup. You gotta have that lineup before you can do anything because you're gonna be writing statistics down by every player in that lineup. You're gonna be making notes, uh, certainly for starting pitchers. You've usually done that even before you get to the ballpark because. You know who the starting pitchers are going to be.

Uh, you don't know who the other guys in the lineup are gonna be. So they, they're, you know, and then you'll go upstairs, you'll get everything set out on the counter the way you like it. Grab a cup of coffee, go back downstairs, uh, go to the manager's briefing with the media, uh, talk to some players. Uh, maybe talk to, uh, some other people in the clubhouse.

You know, anybody, coaches, anybody, you know, other media people. Hey, did hear about so-and-so. Nope. Hadn't heard that. Well, so you need to check that out, that kind of thing. Uh, go to the other clubhouse, get their line up. Uh, try to get in on their manager's session with the media, because I've always believed you're preparing for a broadcast with two teams, not just your team.

Uh, and I, you know, frankly, this is not superiority or anything like that, but if I hear a broadcast and they're not talking about the other team at all, mm-hmm. , , they're just into their own team. Well, if their own team's, you know, 20 games ahead in first place, and they're playing a last place team from the other league that's not familiar to their fans, okay, you get a little bit of a pass on that, but there are still two teams playing this game.

There are still fans of that team listening to your broadcast. You owe it to them, you know, to be, uh, interested in their team, to be factually correct about their team. And I, you know, Larry Dier and I used to talk about this all the time when we broadcast together for 10 years, you know, we're, we're not trying to manipulate anything, but, uh, we are salesman.

We are salesman for the Astros. We're not going to tell you, uh, something that's incorrect. We're not gonna try to spin something. But what we agreed on was, hey, if we're playing the Cardinals and we're tied for first place and we beat them,  then, and we've talked about Albert Poo holes back in the day. He was with the Cardinals and all Scott Row and all these other guys and how good they are.

It gives that win for us more credibility to have beaten, you know, a good team with good players and that sort of thing. So to, to, uh, ignore the other team or denigrate the other team really was never my intent. I just always wanted to give credit where credit was due. And, and so you have to prepare for the other team as well.

And that usually was a lot of my preparation. I I really prepared more for the other team than for our team. You know, you're watching your own team every day, right? You, you try to come up with new stuff on them, but that's hard to do. Uh, but you know, that's why you're in the clubhouse and hey, well, Jose's kids were in the clubhouse today and they were doing this and that and the other thing.

And, you know, just, just a little conversational jab. Uh, but. The other team, I think, deserves, uh, some attention on the broadcast too. And some, and some equal treatment. Yes. As, as well. And so where do you, so what are your sources for the, so you talked about the clubhouse, but what are some other sources there?

Is it, is it a media guide and then, then press notes? My best source would be the broadcasters for the other team, because they know what I want as a broadcaster. They want the same things from me about our team. So we would trade information and uh, you know, you'd get to be really good friends with the broadcasters.

For another team, you'd probably have one guy who was, was your go-to guy, you know, and you'd talk to him more than the other broadcasters. But yeah, and, and that, so we built up some great friendships. And that's the thing about this job, you're always talking. You, you really are. Uh, it's just a constant and you never get tired of it

So what a joy to have a profession like that, you know? Absolutely. And, and believe me, when I was driving down two 90 and I would look over on the side of the road and I'd see a road crew out at 95 degree heat, I tried to tell myself, how lucky are you? You could be doing that job and you're talking baseball.

I had that job a couple years ago actually. Wow. Yep. Hmm. Well, God bless you, because that's a difficult job, . So, so in, uh, in talking to the, into the other broadcasters and forming those friendships, that's, uh, that's, its its own fraternity in and of itself, isn't it? It is, it is. And you know, um, Rick Riz, the Seattle Radio play-by-play, broadcaster's been doing that job for.

I don't know. He was with Detroit. He's been with some other teams, but he's, I think beyond 40 years now in the big leagues. Still as sharp as he ever was. He was one of my best buddies. And I don't talk to Rick anymore. I don't want to bother him, but somebody put on social media, his call of the Jordon Alvarez game, one Homer walk off, and he did a great job.

And you know that it's so disappointing. But there's a responsibility here that we just talked about to the game itself, to the other team, uh, to describe what's happening. And this is a great player who just beat you. It's going to happen tough that it happens under that circumstance. But he, you know, you could, you could sense the disappointment in his voice at the end of the call, but he had excitement in there.

And, and you know, I know some fans would disagree with this, but. That's the way I would've called it too. It's an exciting play. You know, when, when, uh, Matt Cain pitched a perfect game against us, that we didn't want to have a perfect game pitched against us, but that is a rarity in baseball. And he got to the point where, you know, if you've done a lot of games as a broadcaster, you're kind of rooting for the guy.

You, you don't think you're gonna win. So, okay. We can write that off. But yeah, it'd be nice to see a perfect game. I've never done one of those and it was special. It was special. I can imagine. But with, with his, with his call on the, on the home run back to that for a second. He, there's, there's excitement on his side, but it's, it's a different, there's yes.

There's this excitement on this side and then there's the excitement and the disappointment Yeah. On, on their side. Exactly. And that I think is important for a broadcaster. You are broadcasting, in his case for the Seattle Mariners. You're not supposed to be happy here, and the fans are not expecting it.

And you need to give them. That disappointment, you need to let that come through. And this is nothing you sit around and try to do or you can orchestrate. It just happens. But because you're, you're invested, you're emotionally invested in your team, so it's gonna be obvious to, uh, people who want your team to win that you are not happy either.

And that's fine. But I think, you know, and, and I will be a little critical of Harry Carey on, on that front. Uh, he would get down on the Cardinals when he was doing their games or White Sox or whoever, but, uh, he, he was a fan and fans, uh, not using it in a derogatory way, but as a broadcaster, I don't think you should be that much of a fan that you had these highs and lows and.

Distraught and upset and, you know, yelling at your team. And, and that to me, that doesn't play well. I think I, you know, Harry's in the Hall of Fame, so who am, who am I to say? But, um, you know, the players don't like it. Um, I, I think you're, you're feeding into the fans frenzy a lot of times when you get down on players and bury 'em and, and act like that.

There's no way that, that, uh, that would've happened with a good player, you know, when you're burying one of your guys that, that just doesn't wear well. Uh, and I don't think it's, it's right. Uh, in my opinion, you know, you've gotta cut players some slack. They're not trying to make evers . They're not trying to do this.

Yeah. Brad Ledge gave up a home run to poo holes and it cost us a playoff game. But, um, if you bury the guy, I don't think that's fair. I really don't. No. And he had had a tremendous season to, to that point he had. And those things happen to playoffs. They do happen. These are two great teams. , only one of 'em is gonna win

But in those, in those moments, my, my question now is, is it, you don't want to put yourself up and above and over the broadcast, it's, it's, it's your role and your job to just, to just relay it and be, and be behind the scenes a little bit there too. That's right, that's right. I think, I think it's your job to tell the story.

I think it's your job to interpret, you know, maybe why something happened. And that usually falls on the analyst to say, well, he was playing him more up the middle and that hadn't been done in the past, and then he couldn't get back to his right to make that pickup. Uh, so whatever. But, um, yeah, I, I, I think that, uh, it's kind of a more dispassionate role much of the time, Hey, I'm a reporter here and that's why I always preferred Jack Buck to Harry Carey.

Right. I thought Jack, since they were on together, it was a good contrast. But Jack. Was, uh, a reporter. It wasn't about him. When Harry was on, he was more of a showman. Now, he could build drama in a game like nobody. I mean, he had you on the edge of your seat, but then if the Cardinals lost, uh, you were sinking down in your seat, you know, Jack Buck.

It was just, oh, okay. They lost. And, um, yeah, he wasn't happy about it, but it wasn't gonna ruin, you know, the next two weeks of his life. Either

Can you, can you talk about how, how important it, or how it was, it was different? Maybe you get a different perspective when your, when your color, when your color analyst was a former player, like a, a Jim Deses or Larry Dier. Yeah. I was always, for the most part, well, in Houston, in Cincinnati, we had, uh, You know, broadcasters from other cities and we'd be like, two.

Ray Lane was with me there and, and Ken Coleman. So they were both, um, living in other cities. Ray lived in Detroit and Ken lived in Boston and, uh, they were freelancing the job, so they didn't live in Cincinnati. And, uh, we both had great relationships, all of us did. And, uh, but we weren't former players. So my preference would be, uh, to work with a former player.

And so when I got to Houston, it was Larry Dier and then, uh, Jim Maches, as you mentioned, and then Alan Ashby. So, um, I always really relied on their knowledge of the game from having played it for all those years. Uh, I always felt that I needed to give them time to talk on the air. And I know we've had discussions in the past, all, all three of those guys and myself about, uh, hey, I'm not trying to lead you to a conclusion, but I want to give you time.

to explain. And if I said something that you thought should be colored in a different vein, go for it. You know, disagree with me. I think that's good television. Two people disagreeing. I, we don't have to agree on everything. And, um, I think that draws the, the listener and the viewer in a little bit more.

Oh, these guys are going out at it a little bit each, each time that this happens. But it, it, it, uh, it, it very seldom happened that way. It was more like they were teaching us the game. Yeah. They were explaining, okay. I think what happened here was he was trying to throw that slider on the inside corner and didn't quite get it there.

And that's why the batter got a hit. Uh, that's, uh, sort of thing. And, and I think that, uh, they all really, really taught me the game. And so I'm like in, in a way, I'm identifying with a viewer, all right, I'm learning as much from this guy as you are.  because I don't know at all. I mean, if there's one thing you learn about baseball and you definitely don't know it all, you find that out all the time.

Very good, very good. So let me, let me ask you about your faith in God for a moment. In, in looking back on your career, is it, is it very like all the way back to, you know, before Vietnam high school, all, all the way back, is it, is it very easy to, to see now how God was present in those moments and how he went ahead?

He went ahead. He forged that, blazed that trail a little bit for you and, and led you to how your career progressed? It is. Um, and at the time it wasn't always that way of course, but, um, Diana and I were baptized as Christians, uh, when we were in Cincinnati. So we were in the, in the late seventies. So that was before I got fired in 82, which really helped us get through that.

And that was kind of a, you know, career crisis kind of thing where. , okay. They let me stay on at the station for 50% pay until I could find something. And they, they were good about it. And then I was lucky enough to get another job. But you know, these, these are times that you rely on your faith and, um, and then, you know, bingo, a year later we're looking for work again.

And bingo, a year later we're looking for work again. And two years later it's like, this thing isn't going well and what's gonna happen here? And I was ready to get out of the business of broadcasting and do something stable because we didn't want to have to move our daughter around the country anymore.

We just wanted her to go to, you know, school in the same place. And so when we got here, she was in the second grade. And, um, that, that allowed, no, I take it back. She was further advanced in that, but that allowed her to stay here throughout her, all of her high school. And then she went to Baylor. So, you know, it really solidified our family lives.

And that was all God's doing. You know, believe me, I, I had no idea where we were going. And when I came to Houston, I think it was, uh, two year contract, and then after that it was a series of one year contracts, right? So, um, you know, typically in the industry, I think in most cities, the contracts were longer than that.

But I don't look at it as a negative because, you know, you believe in God's word. Well, how, how do I know what I'm gonna be doing two weeks from now? You know, nothing is assured here. Nothing think's guaranteed. You just have to have faith and it worked out. But looking back on it now, uh, definitely it was God's doing.

And, uh, I, I try to recognize that and we try to, uh,  now as 75 year olds, uh, it's not about us anymore. It's not about, you know, uh, getting to retirement and, you know, saving X amount of dollars and all these things. It's more about the grandkids and people around us and what, what can we do here? What is our mission in life now?

Right? Right. How can we, how can we help people? How can we still make a difference in those things? Yeah. Because, you know, you have a certain debt. I think, um, as a Christian, you, you, you do. And um, you realize that you still have God-given abilities even though you're a little bit older and don't have maybe quite the energy you used to have, but you can still, uh, mentor some people.

You can give somebody a phone call is going through a tough time. Things along those lines. And then you've can, can you talk about, in, in, in that vein, in, in, in making a difference, you've done so much charitable work here and you've, you've been a volunteer reader for Sight into Sound mm-hmm.  for the last, what, three decades now?

Mm-hmm. . Can you, can you talk about maybe about how that, about a human interest story that's really resonated with you? And in this case, certainly it's the Bob Asmani and Billy Bradley's story. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Bob, uh, Asmani, um, was of course one of the stars of the early Col 40 fives, starting at 62. And, uh, Billy Bradley, the young man in Arkansas, was 10 years old at the time, and he was struck by light and coming off the baseball field, uh, going to a, a metal drinking fountain.

The, the bolt of lightning passed through a tree and, and it, uh, fried the lenses on his eyes. So he, he was blind in both eyes and hadn't come to Houston for surgery. And, uh, The first doctor he saw in Arkansas said he wouldn't see again. But, uh, Dr. Here, Dr. Lewis Gerard said, no, we can, we can do this with about three surgeries you'll be seeing again.

So he came in and he, Bob asked for money, was his favorite player, and he had, uh, I think his parents called, uh, the ball club Col 40 fives, and explained the thing to him. So Bob came over to visit him, and I think he gave him a autograph ball and some other things. And, and, uh, Billy listened on the radio and Bob had a game-winning Homer.

And then this, this happened, this wound up happening three different times. He came for three different surgeries and Bob hit game-winning Homers, one of 'em a grand slam. Uh, and so this was, uh, divine intervention as Bob Asani. Uh, so great story. And then Billy wound up, uh, his vision was restored. He was able to see the third home run that he had requested each time for Bob asked for money, and each time Bob said, Hey, I'm not that much of a home run hitter.

And a couple of times he was in major slumps and still hit home runs, so obviously was divine intervention. And so I, I think about that story and I think about when I was in Cincinnati, there was a blind, uh, reds fan named Wayne Ryan, and he would call me for tickets every now and then to games. And I got to know him.

He'd call the other broadcasters and they'd give him tickets. And one spring training, he was down in Tampa and I was down there for a telecast and I was talking to him and he said, are you going to the game in St. Pete tomorrow against the Cardinals? I said, yeah, I'm gonna drive over there. And he said, well, could I ride along with you?

So I picked him up and we went over there and, uh, we sat in the stands together. I was not working that day.  and he said, well, describe this, this play for me. Just, just describe what's going on for me. And uh, cuz he was a big fan of radio and I realized, you know, this is what we do. So, um, I always try to think of that.

Uh, and of course on tv that's not your job to describe as much. Uh, so if I'm blind, I'm listening to radio because I want to hear that description. I want to have somebody painting that canvas for me. But, um, you know, I, when I was doing radio I thought of that and, uh, I thought of Wayne Ryan. And uh, then I was reading in the paper, I think we'd been here two or three years about this service, which is now called Sight Into Sound.

It used to be called Taping for the Blind. And they talked about how well we've got, you know, hundreds of volunteers that come down and. Read and they tape shows and it's a radio station that blind people listen to. So I didn't have anything to really do in the wintertime. The off season decided I would volunteer and I started going down once a week, we'll say, and the off season.

And, and it's been very rewarding. And um, you know, occasionally there'll be a letter up on the bulletin board from, from a client as we call them, uh, hey, you know, thanks to the volunteers for helping out my day or something like that. So it just kind of, uh, reinforces in me the fact that, uh, sight is a gift.

We don't think of it. Very seldom do we think, hey, this is a gift, but it's that not everyone has. So, um, you know, somebody will read the Houston Chronicle, somebody will read, uh, Sports Illustrated Magazine and throughout the day, the 24 hour service, there will be different books that are read, different publications that are read, uh, for people who do not have the gift of sight or their dyslexic.

And, uh, that's what that service does for the community. And I think it's a, it's a really good service. That's a very, that's a great contribution that you've made it. I know how much they appreciate you doing that. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Um, let me ask you, I wanna ask you one more question, and I'll land a proverbial plane here, , and we'll, we'll get us outta here.

Is there, um, is there a, a charity or a, or a cause that we can, that we can alert the listeners to that they could follow and contribute to that? That's, that's, uh, something that, uh, that's a personal, personal thing for you that you're Well, that, that's, that's a good question. Thank you. Um, you know, sight in to sound is a, is a good one.

It's not, A well-known charity in our area. It, uh, it doesn't require, uh, millions and millions of dollars to operate. It's, uh, it's a very efficient charity. Uh, the volunteers do all the reading. Uh, so there are, I think, two or three full-time employees. Um, there's the equipment. A lot of the digital recording equipment, of course, needs to be maintained.

There's, there's an old building, uh, that's, you know, we don't even go to the building anymore. The volunteers record from their homes. Now, after the pandemic, we discover that recording on our telephones with that voice memo on an iPhone. The audio quality is fantastic On. . So you can sit in your closet at home, do a 30 minute program and, and text it to them

And, uh, they'll put it on the air. It's amazing. But, um, that, that's a great charity sight in sound. They're having a golf tournament here in a couple weeks for a fundraiser, but they don't do many fundraisers. Um, Diane and I are involved with the Cy-Fair Educational Foundation. Uh, we're doing Salute to our Heroes, uh, next Saturday, the week from today.

Okay. Uh, which is a dinner to raise money for scholarships. And we have a military speaker every year. We do the Missing Man table. We, we acknowledge the veterans. Uh, it's a great, great military, uh, type function. Uh, we had Oliver North one year, so I've met, I've met a lot of, uh, real heroes at this dinner.

I always look forward to him seeing that. And, um, we've, we've been involved with the auctions for years. Uh, so we give. . We have, uh, 12 high schools in Cy-Fair. And, uh, so that's a lot of scholarship money. We have to raise  every year, but that's a, another good foundation. But, uh, those are a couple. Very good, very good.

Well, thank you for, I know, um, I can, I'll speak for all of those organizations and boards and charities to, to say for them how much they appreciate all of your work over the years, all the money you, you've raised and you and Diane being present for them. I know how much they appreciate that. And I personally appreciate you being a man of faith.

And, um, uh, this has Bill, this has been a, just a great conversation with you today. I've really enjoyed spending time with you and I appreciate you very much, sir. Thanks, Greg. Uh, we've had a tremendous friendship over the years and I hope you continue doing this podcast. I think you're serving a lot of people and, um, I, I wish everybody out there all the best.

Thank you very much again. All right, everyone. Thank you again for listening to the Heroes and Icons podcast with your host Greg Randolph and once, once more, thank you again to our guest, bill Brown for accommodating me today. Have a great night everyone. God bless.