Ep. 7. Mark Damon Espinoza, Distinguished Hollywood Actor

Thank you finding my latest episode of the Heroes and Icons episode with Greg Randolph. My guest today is longtime, distinguished Hollywood actor Mark Espinoza.

Welcome! And thank you for joining us today on the Heroes and Icons podcast. 

I am your host, Greg Randolph. Please find me on Twitter at @HeroesIconsPod to get updates for great shows like this and others. If you’re feeling generous, please rate the podcast with 5 Stars, subscribe, and share the show for me.  I would appreciate that very much. 

 We have yet another amazing guest on the show today. If you are a fan of tv and movies, you will recognize my guest from numerous major motion pictures and hit tv shows. He has appeared in blockbuster movies such as The Fugitive, and iconic tv shows such as the hit series Beverly Hills 90210 as Jesse Vasquez, and appeared as Kelly Bundy’s boyfriend, “Carlos” in Married With Children. He’s also been in other hit shows like JAG, Psych, SWAT, NCIS, House, NYPD Blue, Criminal Minds, and too many more shows to mention. Most recently he has been in the NBC series The Endgame. He began his career in 1983 at the Moody Theatre in Galveston, Texas, where he played General Santa Anna in the musical Lone Star. He has also worked in theatres, performing in several different states across the country and other countries such as Germany. Among his interests we can count, singing in Irish pubs, but more on that in a bit. He resides in Los Angeles, California and is the girl dad of 3 amazing young ladies and is also a dog dad to three rescues. This Beaumont, Texas native is a 1978 graduate of Forest Park- Go Trojans, and a 1983 graduate from Lamar University in business- go Cardinals. My guest today on the Heroes and Icons podcast is the distinguished, suave debonaire Mark Espinoza. Please check out his work on the Award-Winning series "Middlehood' and see his profile on IMDB for other work. Links are below. 

Thank you again to everyone for listening to the Heroes and Icons podcast with your host Greg Randolph. A huge thank you and a standing ovation (CLAP!!)  if you will for my friend Mark Espinoza! Have a great night, God Bless and we will see you next time. 

Middlehood – a single-camera half-hour Comedy Drama

New Award-Winning Series 'MIDDLEHOOD' Celebrates the Comedy - And Drama - Of Being In The Middle Of Everything - Especially Mid-Life (yahoo.com)

The Endgame - NBC.com

Mark D. Espinoza - IMDb

#Hollywood
#BeaumontTX
#MarriedWithChildren
#BeverlyHills90210

Transcript

 This computer recording in progress. There we go. Well, welcome and thank you for joining us today on the Heroes and Icons podcast. I'm your host, Greg Randolph. Please find me on Twitter at Heroes Icons Pod to get updates for great shows like this and others. If you're feeling generous, please rate the podcast with five stars, subscribe and share the show for me.

I would appreciate that very much. We have yet another amazing guest on the show today. If you are a fan of TV and movies, you'll recognize my guest from numerous major motion pictures and hit TV shows. He has appeared in blockbuster movies such as The Fugitive and Iconic TV shows such as the Hit series, Beverly Hills 9 0 2 10 as Jesse Vasquez, and he, he also appeared as Kelly Bunny's boyfriend Carlos, and married with children.

He's been in other hit shows like Jag Psych, SWAT, N C I S, house, N Y P D, blue Criminal Minds, and too many more to mention. Most recently, he's been in the the N B C series, the End Game. He began his career in 1983 at the Moody Theater in Galveston, Texas, where he played General Santa Ana in the musical Lone Star.

He has also worked in theaters performing in several different states across the country and other countries such as Germany. Among his interests, we can count singing in Irish pubs, but more, more on that in a bit. He resides in Los Angeles, California and is the girl dad of three amazing young ladies and is also a dog dad to three rescues.

This Beaumont, Texas native is a 1978 graduate of Forest Park High School and a 1983 graduate from Lamar University in business. My guest today on the Heroes and Icons Podcast is the Distinguished SWA Debonair Mark Espinoza. Wait, wait, wait. Back up. Say that again. Cause I don't hear that very often. You say distinguished.

How do you spell that? Yeah. I said, well, I mean, well you've, you've been in Hollywood for a long time. Wouldn't, wouldn't that distinguished. How you doing, mark? How are. I'm sorry, go ahead. Or, or insane. Yeah. Oh, right, right. Yeah. I, I didn't say that you did. Well. How, how are you doing? What are you doing these days?

How's, how's your family to tell me about the girls and the dogs and everything? E everyone is good. Everyone is happy. Uh, uh, the three teenage daughters, um, the dogs are good. Uh, they're all rescues Okay. Like you had mentioned. And, uh, uh, they, they keep me company. The girls don't live with me. So, uh, it's just generally just me and the dogs in the house and the gophers and my partner and life.

And, um, um, you know, I know that, uh, people think Hollywood is like this exciting, glamorous place and, and, uh, I would love to have them spend a day with me in my yard, right? Watch me how glamorous I am, catching gophers and, uh, picking up dog poop. But, uh, everyone is good. The girl, three teenage girls that are.

Yeah, they're amazing and, and, uh, a little crazy and a little great. And it's just a, it's a joy and a ride that I wasn't sure I I would ever be on. Cuz they, they came into my life, uh, like Kate, Kate, who's now, well, 19 and a half and, and, um, she was, I was 43 when she was born. Okay. So it's, uh, yeah, it's, I mean, and then I, I was 49 when Olivia was born, so that's, that's all.

Yeah. It was all, I had friends who were grandparents by that point. Sure. And, uh, that's been, it's been, it's been pretty great. It's been great. Good, good man. Well, I'm glad to hear everyone's doing well. Any, uh, any of the girls wanna be, uh, wanna following dad's footsteps and be an actor? Well, uh, uh, I'm honest with 'em and they've certainly seen me through ups and downs, you know.

Sure. Um, Olivia, the youngest just decided she loves musical theater and wants, she's gonna pursue musical theater and I'm, I'm all for it. Yeah. I, I just wanted to make sure that she understands full on that it's not all shiny and lovely and fun. It's a business, it's a job. It's a hard, hard, hard work. Sure.

It's super competitive and there is no handbook on how to get from point A to point B. Right. It it is, it is, it is your own journey. So I make sure she, she understands that it's frustration and, and disappointment and rejection involved, but if she wants to do it and her heart's in it, go for it. Right.

Absolutely. Yeah. All three girls are really creative. Kate, Kate is a, uh, is really an amazing writer, and she's studying creative writing at, at university right now. Okay. Emmy's an amazing pianist. Uh, I, we don't know if she'll stick with a piano or not, but, uh, she's, she's pretty, pretty talented at it and Olivia decides she wants to be a belter on Broadway, so, you know, go for it.

Okay, good. Yeah. Good. Gotta cha gotta chase the dreams, right? Hell yeah. Nice. You get, you get one shot at this life. Gotta live it. That's, that's it. That's it. Yeah. You gotta take your shot, right? Yep. Good, good. I would love to hear it. So what are, so tell us, tell us some more about you. What are some hobbies that, that you have, we talked about those a little bit before we started, but what are some hobbies that you have out outside of work?

Well, I mean other, I mean, I, I could joke and say it's just yard work, but it is a lot of yard work cause uh, sure. This particular house was built in 1903 and, and there was nothing here. So all the fruit trees, all the landscaping, all the gardening has been since, uh, since we've been here. And it requires a lot of upkeep.

When I was in New York, uh mm-hmm. Working on the end game, uh, hired a gardener to, to handle it while I was out of town cause I wasn't here for four and a half, five months. Mm-hmm. And they're amaz. It was amazing. He was amazing. I thought, I'll never do this yard work again for as long as I'm alive. Right.

And then I came back, garden went away, and, and, uh, so I was doing, doing bits and pieces, and I'm back to where I started. Right. Which is me again, you know? Cause I, right. I think I'm addicted to, uh, it is, it is a very creative thing. And I like having creative outlets. I mean, I used to used to draw quite a bit.

I can get back, I can get to that a little bit later on. Cause that was my original thing in life. Mm-hmm. Uh, I mean, I love to write when I can all, all, uh, uh, for my own, you know, pleasure. But I find that I get a lot of solace working in the yard. And, um, I'll sometimes go out there when it's all done and just try to find something to do because it's, it's out there.

I'm out there with the dogs. I'm out there in the yard. Right. And la. LA is a, is a very on top of your city. Not maybe as much as New York, but mm-hmm. It's, it's just a very congested, very, uh, busy town. So to have the confines of your yard and your, your house, the sound of the train going by, if you can hear it, the metro.

Mm-hmm. It's, it's a really calming, uh, place that I think, I know I'm jumping ahead a tiny bit, but I think part of surviving Hollywood, part of surviving the business wherever you are mm-hmm. Is having a foundation, having, having a home life or a foundation where you can go and, and, uh, detox or decompress at the end of the day.

Cuz it, it is, it's a very demanding industry. It's a very demanding business in a demanding city. Sure. So, to come someplace and, and feel like, well, all I gotta do is pick up dog poop and uh Right. Trim the branches on my lime tree. It's a, it's a fun thing. It's a good thing. But I, I read, I try to read as much as possible as well.

Sure. So the, so the garden and everything in the backyard is a, a respite for you when you're, you're kind of that type of thing? No, front, front and backyard. Sure. I bet. I bet. Well, well, let me get, let me go. I'm gonna go, go all the way back here a little bit back into some, some history. So, so with some of our, as I mentioned, and some of our members, our members of our audience might recall, we both hail from and were raised in the, the Golden Triangle in Beaumont, Texas to be precisely Oh yeah.

What was, what was your childhood like? What, what kind of a kid were you? Uh, two, two separate questions. Uh, I was a, uh, pretty much a very introverted, quiet, very bookish kid. Not an, not an athlete at all. I was very heavy during my, um, early puberty into puberty years. Um, Didn't like, I, I think I mentioned I drew and, and, and art was always my thing in life.

And from the time I was a little, little, little kid, my dad taught me drawing and, and taught me drawing. And, and he would bring home a ream of white paper from work, and that to me was better than any toy on the on earth. I would just draw, I, I would spend hours and hours and hours of drawing. I watched a lot of TV as well.

I love Right. I love Lucy and the Beverly Hillbillies and mm-hmm. The Munsters, all the things that, green Acres, all the stuff that we all grew up with during the sixties and seventies. Right. But art with my escape. Mm-hmm. So I was a pretty quiet kid. I had friends in the neighborhood, but it wasn't until I was probably 12 or 13 that I had lost weight and picked up tennis.

We talked about tennis. Right. Um, and really became more social. I think I was a very quiet kid. My childhood in Beaumont was. Uh, I, you know, I look back now and I couldn't wait to get out of Beaumont. Not cause I hated Beaumont. I just wanted to see the rest of the world. Right. But I, I have a fondness for Southeast Texas and, and I have a fondness for, for Beaumont.

Still very much. I have friends. I still have friends there and there are things about it I miss. Uh, but it was important for me to get out and see the world. Cause I'd always dreamt of other places and seeing other things. It wasn't necessarily escaping, it was more, more wanting to have an adventure Sure.

In life, you know? Sure. And I, I would like that as a little kid, I was very curious about what was on the other side of the fence. Sure. No, absolutely. Absolutely. So, so, so you mentioned some, some shows that you, that you grew up watching, but how did you, how did you first become interested in acting? I, yeah, I don't, I, I, I really don't know.

Um, I saw a play as a kid. I mean, you know, every, probably fourth or fifth grade, the first time I saw a play, I, I'm pretty sure it was fourth grade. And they, they would, um, pile all the kids into, uh, a bus and, you know, you'd bring a sack lunch and you'd pile all the kids to the bus and a bus and they'd drive you out to Lamar University and, and the theater department would do a children's show.

And it was a version of a Hobbit. It was probably the first show I ever saw. And I was just mesmerized, you know, I was just, I right. It was so, I love, I always loved storytelling. I loved having the teacher read you stories. I loved reading. But to have a story come to life, three dimensionally on, um, on the stage was, was really, It was really exciting.

I don't, I don't know that I wanted to be an actor, but I loved theater. Right. And I loved the notion of, and I understood that very clearly. As a kid, I underst I love the notion of live people creating a picture. Okay. Oddly enough. And there's, I have a story about how I decided to become an actor that is rooted in that very same thing.

So I think for me, visual arts and theater were married in a way, um, especially when it came to theater. Um, I, I mean, I understood text, I understood the storytelling part, but it was the visual thing that I, I loved the most. I think when I, when I first saw play, and that, that was inspiring to me as a kid.

Very good. I, I knew there had to be a, a starting point or a, a jump off point maybe for you where, where you saw something or you, you attended something that, that, that truly captivated you. Yeah. Like that. I don't think I wanted, I didn't, I didn't see myself on stage. I just, I fell in love with theater. I don't think I.

Fantasized about being, even though I loved things like the Sunny and Share show or, or Variety accident or, you know, the, the Jackson five growing up. Right. And, you know, I wished I could be like that, but I, I don't think I ever saw myself doing it necessarily. I mean, the, the fantasies Crip crept in later.

Right. Uh, you know. Sure. But, uh, um, as a little kid, I don't think I saw myself as an actor. I, I was still an artist in my head. Visual artist. Sure. Well, did you, did you do anything, you know, in, in junior high or high school that kind of led, you, kinda led you on that, on that path? Yeah. Did you continue? Well, my, I I, I, I stuck with art.

Art was my thing. But I did do a, my first play was, uh, was in, I was a, the first play I actually did was, uh, once upon a mattress in high school. Okay. And I was in the chorus, stuck in the back, you know, in, in, um, leotards that were thermal underwear and, uh, uh, died thermal underwear and had a blast. Made some great friends with that.

And then the next year got a bigger part in the, in the musical. So I, at that point, I learned how, how it was a different drug then, you know, I, I think I loved being part of the visual, uh, process of, of theater. Okay. But I had, I think I had one or two lines in that first musical. And I realized when I, when the, when the curtain came up and the audience was there, I wasn't the shy kid.

I wasn't, I wasn't, um, I wasn't, I wasn't who I was, I was the character. And that, that is, that is addictive. Uh, it is to, it gives you license to, to say something, to be loud. It gives you license to laugh inappropriately. It laughs you, it gives you license to do whatever, whatever you decided as an ensemble to create.

Right. But it gives you individually the license to not be yourself. Now that, that's probably escapism, uh, in pure sense. And I love that. I still, that is, to me some of the most fun in doing theater. Theater in particular. It is, it is for me, the best. Having the license to not be, uh, Who I am. I, I guess I, I mean that, that maybe it doesn't come out for right.

I, I, I'm fine with who I am. Sure. But Sure. Uh, you know, it's not often I get to play at a, uh, a badass cop or Right. You know, a dirt bag. I mean, people, people think of me as kinda like a nice guy. That's why they, I've had friends walk out of shows cuz they were so angry at me for, uh, in particular one show I did down in San Diego, cuz I played a cop who was just a, you know, he's a, he was an asshole and I loved playing that character.

Cause I could never do that in my real life. Right. And I was, I felt really capable. But it, it, it sounds like, it sounds like it's, it was the, the whole process is most appealing to you because it gives you full creative control over, over all of those, over all those elements. Am I, am I saying that right?

Yeah. I think you, you, you still have a responsibility to playwright. Sure you have a responsibility to the director of their vision. You have a responsibility to your fellow actors. So it's not, not like you've got full creative control, okay. But you have a rehearsal process where you can, in, you can invest in different things, and a good director will allow you to do that.

And what you get at the end of a three and a half, four week rehearsal process or period, is you've, you've filtered through all that and you've got something that congeals, that's true to the play, um, fair to your fellow actors and as part of the director's vision. So you, you have an opportunity to bring your ideas to life, which doesn't always happen in tv unfortunately.

You know, TV has to happen very quickly. There's a, there's a different responsibility, even though you still have a responsibility to your fellow actors. Mm-hmm. You don't always get that, that level of freedom. Uh, so yeah, it, it, it is. I mean, you, you do get some, but it's, uh, um, it's not, it's not quite as, Uh, there isn't quite as much freedom in tv.

Let's put that we're TV film. Okay. Yeah. It's just my experience. My experience. Gotcha, gotcha. We, we'll, we, we can, we'll revisit that in just, uh, in just a bit here, but let me, let me keep, uh, kind of keep going forward through the Yeah. Through some, through some years here. So, so you, you attended Forest Park High School in, in Beaumont.

You graduated in 1978 and then you attended, oh my God. Doesn't that sound a long time ago? Uh, it's Greg. It is my man. You're at 45 years, is that right? Pardon? 45 years since graduation. Uh, is that right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Wow. Were you, were you, I don't think you were even born in 78, were you? Yes, sir. I was. I was eight years old.

Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. You're only 10 years older than I am. Oh. I still got you. I gotcha, I gotcha. So, so you attended, so, so you graduated Forest Park in 1978, then you attended Lamar University, you graduated there in 1983, and then you, right. So can, can you walk me through, wait, after, after graduation and you, you went, you had a corporate job for a little bit.

I, I, is that right? Yeah, I did. I, uh, uh, to back up a tiny bit. I wanted to, I really wanted to st even after having the experience with theater. Mm-hmm. I still wanted to study art. I, I, I had always grown up thinking I would be, you know, living in some attic in Paris, you know, dying penniless, but famous.

Right. You know, painting great, great works of art. Uh, that didn't happen. Obviously. I couldn't, couldn't really afford to go. Uh, I, I, I, and I'm trying to phrase this correct way. Mm-hmm. Uh, I, I didn't have the access to the colleges. I, I would've liked to have gone to. And the one opportunity I had didn't really come to fruition as far studying art.

So it was either studied business at Lamar or, um, cuz I, I had a, got a SCO partial scholarship through my dad's company so I could study and I really wanted to go to college. I, I definitely wanted to go to college, so I studied, I ended up studying business and then, um, dropped out my first semester of college a after my first semester of college.

Cause I just, just wasn't happy. I wasn't ready and I, I was an a and b student and all of a sudden I was a C student and I just wasn't, I, I just wasn't ready. I took a semester off, I did a play, I drew a lot and I, I gave myself a little bit of time to adjust to being a young adult, I think, you know, uh, not quite sure what I was going to do.

And I decided to go back to school and, and my grades shot up. You know, I was prepared and I sort of learned, um, That it was a means to an end. Graduated from, you know, I did plays in, in college, kept drawing, I took some art classes, got my business degree, and did what, uh, I think, you know, back then it was early eighties.

Um, and in my mind it just seemed like everyone was going into business. Everyone was getting a corporate job, right. The thing to do was follow the path. And so I, I did that. I moved to Dallas, oddly enough to do a play and then got a job at, um, make a long story short, after a couple of small jobs I did it, got a job at Rockwell International, uh, working in the defense contracting department.

Wow. Was a pricing analyst. Okay. So I worked on government contracts for French government and German government, um, you know, uh, for the American government, selling them to the French and German government, um, various programs, and was in that world for two years in a cubicle in the mid eighties. And it was just the height of.

The Reagan era, the height of, I think, corporate, um, it was more, more of a corporate mentality. I think. You know, it, it was, it was, the economy was great. Um, things seemed bright and it was very, I, what I remember the most about that period of time was how materialistic everyone had become, my friends had become.

Right. Um, it was really about attaining things as opposed to being happy, it seemed like. Right. And I was just really, really unhappy. Stuck in a cubicle. It's a much longer story, but it, it boiled down to, um, whether or not I was going to take a job that had been offered at a company in Tampa. Mm-hmm. Doing what I was doing at Rockwell or going to, uh, grad school at Columbia, in Columbia University.

I had applied to a really good school. I thought, well, if I'm gonna go. Changed my life. I wanna go back and study business. I wanna go to a really good school. Sure. And I ended up seeing a play when I went, uh, to interview with Columbia. I went and saw a play that weekend about, uh, an artist's life. It was, it's called Sunday in the Park with George by, uh, Steven Sondheim.

It's a fictitious account of George Ciro's life. The Pointless. And it really, the decision that the actor, the character was making was, do I paint in order to please other people so I can sell my paintings? Right. Or do I paint to please myself to satisfy my creative urge? And it spoke not urge creative life.

Right. Um, that at 24, 20, 25 years old, it spoke volumes to me. I realized if I didn't do something creative with my life at that age, I was not gonna do it at 40. I wasn't gonna do it at 50. I would probably never do it. And it was either take the leap right now and. Follow, follow something in your heart or just sit in a cubicle the rest of your life.

There's nothing wrong with sitting in a cubicle the rest of your life if that makes you happy. Right. And I would incredibly unhappy and I thought I'd rather, I'd rather do something crazy and fail than, um, cuz no one thought I'd ever be an actor. I mean, I, I always had tiny roles and things and I, I don't know if I was any good or not.

I don't know. I mean, I, I was an okay singer, but I, I wasn't the best. I wasn't the prettiest, I wasn't the funniest, but I really wanted to do it and I was willing to take the risk. And so I called, uh, the company, it was Honeywell Avionics in Tampa. And I, I spoke to their, their head under guy and said, well, I've decided to go to Columbia.

And I called the woman at Columbia and I said, I've taken the job in Tampa just to cover my bases so it wouldn't sound so crazy. I talked to my boss, um, and. The rest was just, you know, uh, he, my, my boss was super supportive at the time, very supportive and very, very behind me, a hundred percent. Some, some coworkers had seen me do some theater in Dallas, and they were very supportive.

Um, left Rockwell, uh, with I think a couple of grand in my pocket. Um, and, uh, my dad was so mad at me. Everyone thought I was, other than the few friends, he was supportive. Everyone thought I was nuts, you know, and lived in a, an apartment with a trumpet player for a summer, doing a summer program there and, and, um, uh, up in Washington Heights, way up in one 68th and Riverside.

And, uh, the school I had gone to, uh, had a two year program, so I ended up staying off with a two year program with that. Okay. And made, made some of the best friends of my life. And, uh, I never looked back. I didn't, I didn't regret it. There are lots of times and you're waiting tables, you're getting home at.

Two in the morning have to get up at right seven to catch a train to get to class. And I used to do, uh, a menu boards a, a restaurant called Joe Allen's back when they had you, they were handwritten. And so in those days, I would get off school, go wait tables at my re regular restaurant at midnight or one, I'd go to Joe Allen's and do the menu boards, and then I'd push the tables together and sleep on the tables and start over again.

Go to school. So there's sometimes there'd be 48 hours without ever seeing my apartment, you know? Sure. Um, but it was worth it. I never once looked and missed that cubicle. I never once regretted that decision. Um, and it, it is, it's just a, it's a. It's a journey that I, I don't know how I would recommend just casually doing.

Sure. Because some people do it as a hobby, some people do it, they think they wanna be a star. I would never say do it cuz you wanna be a star. Do it because you love it. Right. Because it's just, it's so hard and if, if you don't, it's gonna be really tough. Right. Yeah. And the value tradeoffs sometimes aren't worth it if you're not prepared to deal with it.

Um, gotcha. I think, you know. Gotcha. So, so lemme ask you this. So, so how did you, how did you find the place that you wanted to go and, and, and, and study with or, you know, for, for, for grad school or you were, you know, I mean, for example, so you were at the, the circle in the Square Theater School, correct?

Correct. And so, correct. And, and so my question is like, how did you, how did you find. How did you find that, that that was a place that you wanted to go and study? I mean, was it, was it a trade magazine or something like that? Uh, that, no, that, that, uh, odd enough, that trip, um, that I decided I wasn't gonna do, I wasn't gonna go back into the corporate life and I was gonna make the change.

I'd seen a play at, at Circle in the Square Theater, so I'd called them. Uh, I didn't know if I was gonna go back to school necessarily, but I, I called them about a week later and asked if they had any kind of internship program. If there was, I was prepared to go just work backstage for free, anything. I just wanna be, I, I had to start somewhere.

I'll just start wherever. Makes sense. And I called them and they, they said, well, we have a theater school. I'll forward you to the theater school. So I talked the assistant and they said, well, there's a, you know, there's a summer program, uh, would you be interested? And I said, yeah. And so they sent me a brochure.

I had to fly back to New York to audition for it. And, uh, auditioned for their summer program, which was about a, I think it was a seven or eight week program that summer. Okay. And, um, uh, got in and then, uh, did the program. And, um, I was an alternate to be allowed into their full two year program. And then some people dropped out.

And so I got asked to join the two year program. And so that, that is, that's how I came across Circle of the Square. I didn't realize that it had a fairly long history and, and, and a fairly distinguished history of as the acting school. Right. And, um, hats of amazing teachers and I, I owe them everything because they gave me the foundation I needed.

To, to make the leap. Um, I didn't, I didn't know what I was doing. You know, I mean, you, you, you're, you're, uh, banking on instinct, you're banking on some, some kids just are so talented, they're born that way. Right. You know, I didn't, I don't think I was born wanting to be on stage with this need and this, uh, this intellect that, that some actors have.

I had the desire, um, to do it. So the training for me was really important. It gave me a place to fail, and I needed that before I jumped into the real world. Right, right. So was there, was there someone, was there someone that you studied under or maybe another coach or a mentor that you had that was, that was just really instrumental for you?

Yeah, uh, uh, Alan Langdon, who just retired about two years ago, uh, was, was probably the one voice there amongst all the teachers were great and I, I enjoyed all of them, but he, he was probably the one person that his method, his process. Spoke to me. I think he, what I got from him was, um, he wanted you to be able to, he wanted you to be able to stand on your own two feet in any scenario, because you wouldn't always have the best director on the planet.

You wouldn't always have the, the most cooperative fellow actors, right? You would need to be able to take care of yourself. And it wasn't a, an offensive or even a defensive approach to acting. Sure it would be on your own two feet. Be capable, be prepared, um, and know what the hell you're doing. And that was, I mean, he, he, um, I, I still hear his voice when I'm on set and you don't have a good direct.

And I still, you know, there are times when you're dealing with directors, you don't really quite know what they're doing, uh, or don't know how to speak to an cul, let's put it that way. Okay. And, um, although I, I had worked with some, some amazing directors, so in those moments, you, you, you, I still hear his voice.

And I still hear the questions he would ask you so that you can feel a little more confident in your own skin so you can get, get through the job. Gotcha, gotcha. Well, I mean that's important to, to have that and to have that someone believe in you and give you that, give you that direction, especially if you're Absolutely, yeah.

Yeah. And it may have worked for me, it may not have worked for other people. I don't know. Everyone has, everyone's approach to it is a little different. Right. But he, Alan is probably the one person I look back and I think he gave me the most out of, out of my investment. Gotcha. Gotcha. Well that's that's great man.

I'm glad to hear that. Very glad to hear that. So, so, so take me to the, the, but I, I guess back to the summer of 83, you start off at the, at the Moody Theater in Galveston, Texas as the, uh, you have the role of, uh, of General Santa Ana in the musical Lone Star. So what were the, what were those early years like for you?

And then you, you started doing theater and cabarets, if I'm saying that right? And then you, you get over to San Diego after that. Is that, is that how No, that, that's fact. That's not quite, it was a little bit longer tra trajectory, but, uh, uh, because I, I did that one summer stock thing with Santa Ana and there's, it was at the Moody Theater.

They did two shows in that open outdoor amphitheater, and that year it was, uh, lone Star, which was, they had some music in it wasn't quite, wasn't really a musical. And then Annie, get Your Gun. And I played one of the, uh, native American characters in that, in the chorus in the back. And that, that was a musical or is a musical.

Um, but I still had, I hadn't graduated from college. That was, that was, um, the summer right before my last semester. Oh, okay. And, uh, uh, so I, I finished that, I did that that summer and spent that summer doing the summer stock thing. And then, uh, went back to Lamar, finished up school, um, and got, you know, uh, it's a much longer story.

I don't wanna drag it on, but got a really tiny role on a show in Dallas and that's, that's, that was the impetus to move to Dallas. Okay. And then I got my job working, um, at Rockwell while I was in Dallas, so that, that's the, the point A to point B for that one. But it was, you know, I, I didn't really know what I was doing.

I, I don't, you know, sometimes I still wonder if I know what the hell I'm doing, but, um, it was exciting. It was fun. I loved, again, getting back to the notion of having licensed to not be yourself or to be someone else. I loved that and, uh, I had a blast that summer doing, playing Santa Ana. Yeah, nice. And I have still have friends from that summer.

That's, uh, that's great. So you guys have been friends for several decades now? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Good, good man. Well, let me, let me move on to kind take us up to the, up to the nineties here. So, so you appeared on some hit shows, you were in some big things. You were in Beverly Hills, 9 0 2 10, and you were in with, uh, married with children.

So what were, what were those cast like to, to work with? What were those sets like? Uh, well, uh, I, I still, I remember, I remember all the good stuff about 9 0 2 oh and, you know, there was plenty of things that were difficult and tricky at times. A bunch of young, not a bunch, but uh, a cast of young actors who were super, super famous at the time.

So there was always gonna be a little bit of. Competitiveness amongst them or, or maybe, um, you know, a little drama here and there. Sure. Uh, I was lucky because I got to work with Gab Gabriel Cart. Right. And we are still, we're still best friends. Sure. I still talk to her all the time and she, she was a dream.

She's, she's, she, it could have been a really difficult job, but she made it easy, really super easy. Uh, I, I really enjoyed everyone. I, I liked everyone. I got along with everyone and, but I was also a tertiary character at the time. You know, they had that, their core, their core was super famous, you know?

Sure. Um, it, I, I think onset was fine. It was a working environment. It was offset that, that was hard, harder adjustment for me, I think because all of a sudden, uh, people are digging through your trash or. They find out where you live, they knock on your windows in the middle of the night or the, the stuff that you hear about that is, it's a little creepy.

And this is before, you know, before and research and Yeah. And all those things, you events what happened. But not with this, not with the, uh, they weren't as prolific as they would be now. Sure. The advent of social media, everyone knows everything. Yeah. But it was, it could get scary at times, you know? And, and I, I didn't have to deal with one, 1000th what Jason or, or Luke or those guys had to deal with.

Right. But it was still creepy, you know, and people following around or, you know, people would come up to me and go, you know, faking it, but Wow. Oh, the weird stuff. That was the harder stuff, the stuff on set. Was easy by comparison, you know? Right. But the cast was great. Loved them, loved them. I had, I will, I will jump ahead a little tiny bit.

Uh mm-hmm. The two weeks I had on nine, uh, on, um, married with children, however mm-hmm. Was just two, two of the most fun I've ever had. Uh, very serious actors. Christina Applegate is a genius. Uh, she, she's truly genius. Um, they were all great, but all very professional and all really wanted to have fun. Sure.

So they were very serious about the work. But the show itself, I love the show, was, you know, uh, poked fun at the Sacred Cow of the Family unit in this country. Right. And it was the subtext that everyone thought or wanted to save their own family, or their sub, or their neighbors or whatever. Mm-hmm. Now, that show, it just, just blew out.

And I, I loved that about it. So playing a stereotypical character with an accent like that, It was a blast. Right. I, I, I had, because I, I, I could poke fun it myself, you know? And, and, uh, they were amazing. And the second, the second episode, I get to work with, uh, ed O'Neill more directly on the second episode.

Okay. And I think it was his idea to bring me back for that. He is an amazing guy. Amazing. And I got to meet one of my, my childhood, uh, heroes. Uh, Tim Conway was on that series. Oh, wow. And, uh, he was on that episode, and I just, I just couldn't stop smiling the whole week. Hey, he's, he, he, he goes beyond genius, but just the nicest, quietest, sweetest little guy, you know?

Oh my God. Amazing. Amazing. Well, that's great. I'm, I'm glad that you got to, to experience that. So, so let me, let me, well, I, I'm gonna ask you this, and then I'll come back to that in a second. So, so, so at, at that time were, were you, were you sought after as a Hispanic male actor? Is that, am I saying that right or am I reading that?

Yeah, no, no. You can, you can. I'm not, I mean, people want, you know, they don't know if it's Latino, Latinx or Hispanic. Uh, I, I'm not offended by, by any of that. Um, um, yes and answer your question yes. That it's, it's a much more involved topic, I think, than, than getting into, because unfortunately, even with the advent of, even with the, um, the advantage of having something like 9 0 2 and oh behind me, uh, all the roles that were pretty much offered to me are the things I would go in on what  you gotta talk by issue on.

And I, I grew up in a track home in Beaumont, Texas. I grew up watching I love Lucy and, and the Monsters and Green Acres. And I think in my mind, I, I saw myself as an actor, not just a Hispanic actor. Right. Unfortunately, the industry especially then, it's less so now, obviously. But then it was, that was all that was available to me.

And I was, you know, 33 when I left 9 0 2 and oh, and I'm still going back trying to audition for gang bangers and things like that. And it was, it was tricky. Right. Uh, the theater that opened up to me was amazing. And I did a lot of theater after that. Okay. Cause I got to do better roles. Um, but I, I can't think of one role that wasn't the stereotype for years and years and years and years and years.

Uh, and I would never get hired for him because I just don't look like it. Gotcha. Um, I don't, I mean, I got, I'm Opie Taylor with a tan. I've got these ears. And even when I had hair, I still had these ears, you know? And Sure. I just didn't look like that street thug. Gotcha. But that was kind of all that was available to me.

Ah, okay. Okay. So did you, did you feel like you had to, at, at, at times, did you ever feel like you had to take, take things just because it was, it was offered to just, to just to keep working? Um, well there's a long time I didn't work. I just did a lot of theater, right. Cause I, I couldn't, uh, I'd come back to la I'd spent some time here, but I couldn't get anything that was, I couldn't get taken seriously.

Let's put it that way. Okay. Okay. Uh, uh, and, but by that I mean, I couldn't, as an actor, it was, it was all low, low rent, um, stuff for the most part. Um, so I, I, I would get frustrated and leave and go do theater and I would keep coming back and keep going back. I would go back to Chicago quite a bit cause that's, I spent time in Chicago.

Um, and it, there was a great deal of frustration. I spent a summer. Back in New York auditioning for musicals. And I got down to the Wire for the first touring company of rent and a show that, uh, Paul Simon had written called Cape Man. And Okay. Um, some other stuff that I got so close to things that my heart was, um, I knew in my heart I wanted to do, but I didn't get 'em.

Came back to LA and again, it was talk like this, you know, and it, it, I just, it was soul crushing. Um, and so I was, I was just jockeying in and out of town trying to stay busy doing theater work or looking for theater work, right? And finally back in 99, I, I said, I can't do any of this anymore. And, and went to Germany and, uh, I, I had a series of cabarets there that I was doing in Frankfurt and Stuttgart through, through some friends of mine.

And, um, um, Oh, it's such a long story, Greg. I mean, it's like, it's like, you know, load, right? What's that? No, I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, no. It's just, you know, I, I went from being on 9 0 2 1 oh at a time playing a very positive image character that I didn't think would ever happen. God bless those guys for, for creating that character, um, or writing the character and allowing me to help creating.

I went from that to, you know, seven years later I'm sitting on a park branch in Frankfurt in the middle of winter, uh, not knowing what I was gonna do with my life because, um, you know, I felt like maybe, maybe it's time to do something else because I've achieved something people never said I would ever achieve.

Right. And I think I, maybe, I, maybe I needed to prove people wrong. Maybe that was the impetus for doing what I did. I, I don't know. But, uh, I didn't really feel like I had anywhere to turn to. Stayed in Germany for a bit, came back, did some more regional theater and thought, all right, la one more time.

Let's see what happens. Okay. And it just started to unfold again. And it's sort of like, it's definitely the second act of, of what was, you know, my own play, my own life. And it's been a, it's been a di very different journey this time around. Uh, and that's been 20, 20 years now. Wow. Yeah. Well, you, you've made it, you've stayed in the fight and you've, uh, you've, you've made a nice career for yourself.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm pleased. I'm happy about it. And more importantly, getting back to another other topic there, there are plenty of times I've turned down the work. Sure. Uh, because I, I, I can't play the low rank characters. I don't wanna do it. And I've, there, there are a couple times I've had to do it, um, But I refuse to use an accident.

I refuse to do that. I, I'm not gonna play into that stereotype. Right. That I've been fighting against. Um, cause part of the impetus for me was also to not be what they want you to be, if that makes sense. Yeah. Um, and that, that's, that in itself is a battle. But I get, I get stopped every once in a while, a younger actors, younger Latino actors saying, I, I watched you growing up and it meant a lot to me to see someone playing a positive image character.

Right. So, when I came back in 20 or 2002, 2003, pretty much started playing lo things opened up a bit more. I played lawyers, a lot of doctors, lots of cops, and those roles, I, I had so much more satisfaction out of those characters, uh, cause I knew I wasn't contributing to the thing that I was fighting against, if that makes sense.

Sure. No. Absolutely, absolutely. Makes, makes all the sense. So, so let me ask you, let me ask you this. So can you, so when, when you're, when you're finding work and roles and roles come up, how do they, are, are you approached directly or does that, does that go through your agent and your agency for, for roles?

Is that how that works? Yeah. Yeah. It go, it go, it'll go through the agent, generally the agent will get it first. Mm-hmm. Sometimes they'll, they'll contact your man, your my manager, and, uh, talk to her first. But, uh, it generally goes through an agent eight. My agents who are great folk, by the way, I really, really like them a lot.

Okay. Very good. And so they have, and so they've, they've got all that, all that information. They say, Hey, we want, or this is, this is what we're doing. This is, we, we want to, you know, have Mark come and come and see us and audition. Right. Yeah. That type of thing. Well, there's, there's, there's very little going and seeing anybody right now, it's all self tapes, uh, hasn't quite gotten back to in office yet.

Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. So, so what is, can you tell us, can you walk us through for our, our audience, what is, what is an, what is an audition like? Like when you do get that call, you do get that info. I mean, yeah, I, I'm sorry, I know you just answered that, but, but when, but but before, before, what was, what was that like when you would go to go to audition?

Well, in, in a nutshell, you get a call on a, on a Monday night, uh, this is, this is not an exaggeration, but you get a call on a Monday night with eight to 10 pages, uh, to show up at 10 o'clock on Tuesday morning. And you may or may not start work on Wednesday or Thursday. It's that volatile, it's that quick.

It's that late generally. Uh, back, back in the old days, um, and. So much of a skillset is learning your lines quickly, a learning your lines quickly. Cuz since I've had to start wearing glasses, I can't use sides so much cause I just, I'd have to hold it outta here, you know, to see it. Sure. But ha I would say 75% of my skillset is rooted in, in being able to walk into a, after so many years of doing it right, being able to walk into a room of producers, get a, get their vibe pretty quickly.

Right? Figure out what, cuz sometimes all the rehearsal in the world, uh, by yourself will not inform you as much as walking into a room of producers. The expectations. And it's a, it's a, it's a muscle that you learn to use, that I've learned to develop and use. And if they have a sense of humor or not.

Because what, because there are a lot of talented actors out there and you. I've gotten a job many times, not being the best at it, but being the most hireable. Right? Because once you prove to them he's not a nutcase, he's got a reputat, a good reputation, right? He's a capable actor. He does the world well, and you take notes from them.

You can, you can do the notes live, uh, in person for them. Uh, they know that you're the kind of guy that that is malleable, that is directable, that's gonna show up on time and know his stuff cuz it's a business and it's, you know, it's a, it's a job. I really miss that about being in room. And I liked having, I liked having an audience or the self tape.

It's very different because there's, you're not in the room to ask 'em questions. They're, they can't ask you questions. It's, it's, it's a lot harder on me. Uh, it's more of a crapshoot. Um, it's a really different world now. It, it seems like a much colder, much more sterile process by, by, by doing it that way, just with the digital part of it.

Yeah. Is that, would you, I, I know some actors who love it because they don't like, they don't like being in a room. And, and, and to be honest, uh, with self tapes, they generally give you the material sooner. Like, they'll give you a few extra days, and that's, that's a luxury. Okay. Because it really was in the old days, you get it the night before.

Right. Uh, and then, and then say you had plans that next day you couldn't, you'd have to change your plans to drive about, you know, an hour and a half out to Chatsworth, to a studio or, you know, spend, you have a five o'clock audition on a Friday in Santa Monica. I live on the near downtown. Okay. You're gonna count on two hours driving back.

Yep. Yep. And so that, that part of it is a relief. But I really miss being in a room with, with other, with live human beings, you know? Well, I was gonna say it, it seems like, and back to your, back, to your friends not, not wanting to, to be in a room. I mean, isn't that, isn't that kind of part of the natural process?

I, I mean, I'm, I'm trying to understand like, maybe why, I mean, why they wouldn't want to be in a, in a room to, to do that. If that's, if that's what's gonna happen anyway for a recording or performance. Well, it's really, it's really nerdy because there's so much at stake. You want the job. Okay. And some people don't want, once you're, once you get the job and you're on set, it's, it's a little different.

You, you, you've got the job, right? When you go in jocking for the job, there's a lot of pressure and you have all your fellow actors competing for the same job around you that can get very, that it's, it's an oppressive feeling. It can be, uh, and it's nervy and some people, Have different tolerances for that level of nerves.

I, I don't typically get nervous like that. Right. Um, but I totally get why some, some actors don't want to be in a room full of producers who may look at you like, you're crap. I don't, I don't mind it. I, I've, I, by that, by this point, I'm, I'm used to the rejection. I'm used to Right. That feeling. And if you don't like it, I'll get the next job.

That's my, that's my feeling about it. Uh, but I understand why some actors don't want to do it. And when you've got your own house to, you know, to, to do your audition and you do 10 takes, you send it to your agent, let them decide and, and send it on, it's done. And that part of it is convenient. Sure. Um, I still miss being in a room.

I don't mind if it doesn't go well, that's okay. The next one will, and I don't, I don't mind it. Is that, is that rejection just, just part of the process? And that's what you, what you have to tell yourself to keep a positive frame of mind. Like, hey, oh, absolutely. Hey, there's a reason this didn't work out.

There's something better for me that's, that's down the road that I was meant to have. Is that, is that kinda what you You're always, you're always sitting at the roulette table. Okay. And I'm not a gambler. I can't, I don't enjoy gambling. Right. Because I gamble with my life. I gamble with, uh, sure. With this career.

Yeah. And, uh, rejection is, is, it's my God, I don't, I don't know, I don't know an actor alive that wouldn't agree with me. Rejection's. 90% of it. Um, you're not gonna get every job. Sure. And there's some really lucky actors out there who get big jobs early on, but in some process of a long career, you're gonna have that.

I don't know, one actor who has not had that. That experience of re of constant rejection after rejection, after rejection. Even super famous friends of mine, um, super famous friends. Sure. Uh, uh, more notorious friends of mine have had that, have had that experience. Very interesting. So, so in that, in, in that regard as, as far as the super famous, I, I did want to ask you this.

So, so you're in la you're in Hollywood, you've been an actor for a long time. Is there anyone that, that you are personally starstruck by? I mean, maybe a Henry, maybe a Henry Winkler or somebody like that? That's that's a legend out there. Well, there, there have been. There've been, there have been a couple of times.

Um, yeah. Yes, yes, there is. I, I, I typically, well, by the time you get a job and you're working with, I got to work with Ja. I don't wanna name drop. I got to work with, you know, James Earl Jones a long time ago. Long, long time ago. I love that guy. And I got to work with Jane Alexander, my first union play and.

I got a funny story about that, that I'll tell you off air. Gotcha. But, uh, um, um, there I've met some famous people and I'm real seldom ever starstruck. And, um, I on set twice. I was, I was really, I got to play, uh, opposite, uh, um, um, Jessica Lang in, in an episode, a couple episodes or an episode, uh, of, um, of, um, American Horror Story.

Okay. And, uh, asylum. And I was really nervous. I thought, oh my God. Cuz she seems kind of cool. She's always very, she doesn't put out a lot of emotion. Uh, she's an Oscar winner. She's, you know, she's, she looks like a tough cookie. Could not have been nicer, could not have been more, very, very, Uh, professional.

Very no time for bs. Sure. Very much about the work, but we shot those, those scenes. My God. Cause they shot from every angle possible. I'm not joking. We must have shot it 20, 25 times. She, and she was getting on the ground to wrestle this character. That was really her. I'm having my back went out that night too.

I, I tried to pick her up. I had to pick her up multiple times. And, uh, she gave you 1000% every single time and was so incredibly nice. And I, all the nerves went away after we rehearsed because she was just all about the work. She wasn't about being a star. She was about to work. Um, the second one was, um, I did an episode of, uh, oh 9 1 9 1 1 9 1 1.

Yes. The, the, the, the, the Ryan Murphy. Yes, I did different Ryan Murphy things and um, um, I got this little gig doing one of those jobs where, uh, I got called in on a Monday, got the job Monday night, had to show up the next day for work, and it happened really quickly. And I looked up who the character was I was playing with.

I hadn't seen the show. And it was Angela Bassett. Wow. Oh my God. I love Angela Bassett. I, she's, she's truly one of the most amazing actors ever. Sure. And I, I was not nervous until I found out who I was working with the next morning, and my entire scene was with her. And I show up and I was nervous that I, I was legitimately nervous and I knew my lines, but I thought, what am I gonna, you know, what if she's not nice?

What if, what if, what if it's a pain in the ass? I don't know. I show up. She was so nice and she's. She's even more beautiful in person. Like, I'm, I'm right. I'm, yeah. I'm as close to her as I am to this screen right now with a spoon. Sure. Yeah. And I'm there all day doing this scene with her, and she could not have been nicer, could not have been more, again, more professional.

Uh, and she's gorgeous. I'm looking at her going, oh my God, you're beautiful. And I didn't, I didn't say anything till her, to her until the very end of, uh, the day. And I, I went up to her and I said, you know, Angela, I'm, yeah. I don't wanna be fanboy, but, um, I gotta tell you, I, I think you're one of the most amazing actors and, and I've just gotta, I've gotta tell you how much I love you.

And she was just so nice about it. Gave me a big hug and, you know, thanked me for the work and Sure. Uh, I walked off like just smiling ear to ear, like Angela Bassett. I just work with Angela Bassett. Very, very un, very understandable. And those, those sound like great moments for sure. Oh yeah. I met Gladys Knight one night at, at a Fox Park.

It was during 9 0 2 10. Wow. And when Fox took over the N F L. Right. So it was a big N f L thing. They, and they all gave you footballs that, that night. And um, and I saw her come in with her daughter and I thought, oh my God, I gotta go meet her. I just gotta go meet her. And I said, um, I walked up to her and, and, uh, she was beautiful, beautiful person.

And uh, I said, excuse me Ms. Knight, I just have to tell you that I love you so much. I listened to your music and I still listen to your music. Would you mind signing my football? And she looked up and she goes to me, she says, only feel sign mine. Cause I watch you every Wednesday night. I love your work life made.

Right. What Gladys Knight watches 9 0 2. Oh, exactly. Uh, I still have that football. That, and that's, that's awesome, man. That's a great moment for you. That's, that's good stuff, man. Sure. Uh, man, what a, what a great conversation this has been. Let me, let me ask you just a couple more things and we'll, uh, we'll lay on the plane, so to speak.

So let me, so can you tell me about, about the singing in the, in the Iris pubs? Is that, is that, is that something that's, that's e expected or is the norm and, and, and accepted in, in such an establishment? Is that, is that how that works? Or? So if you ever, you, you've been to an Irish pub, right? I've, I, not necessarily.

I mean, I haven't been to Boston or anything like that, so. All right. Uh, I mean, I, I lived, yeah, went to school in New York. Lived in New York, and plenty of Irish pubs there. Sure. Uh, and I've been to Ireland multiple times, and there are plenty of Irish pubs there. Uh, I, I have a, even as a little kid, I had a, an affinity for Danny Boy and anything Irish.

I've always loved Irish music, gay music. Um, and when I. Finally got the confidence to, to, in my own voice, singing voice, uh, fully. Danny Boy was a part of my repertoire always. I've, I, I've closed cabarets with it and I've sung it for auditions and I've sung it for Irish. You know, people who, who look at you like, there's no way you're gonna sing Danny Boy.

Right? And I, and I'll sing it, and I'm not the best singer on the planet, but I do it with every inch and every pour in my body. And I've, I've yet to find someone who hates that vert my version of it. So all that to say that there have been times when just for the hell of it, I've had a couple of pints of beer and I'll just break into it now.

I don't do it all the time. Right. And there, there have certainly been places that had open mics. You know, they've, they've had musicians and I've asked, do you mind if I sing something? And they, they let you sing it. Right? And I've had people buy me plenty of beer because I got, had the, uh, Kaho to get up and sing.

Danny board a brown dude singing Danny board, you know, for a bunch of Irish and, uh, uh, there was one little pub in Germany, not, not where I did cabarets, but it was, it was run by an Irish guy. And so it was, it was where the Irish community in Stuttgart and there are lots of Irish living there, okay. Would come and on a Monday night they would, um, do a jam session and I would go and, uh, they would always ask, did I sing it for 'em?

And, uh, uh, it's, it's still the song that I probably like singing the most definitely. And my, my goal is to go back to Ireland, buy around for, for an Irish pub somewhere there, and just let them, let me sing. Danny. Boy, I gotta do it pretty quick. Cause I'm, you're 63 years old. I, I wanna make sure I do it with my full range.

Yeah, we're not, uh, we're not getting any younger and no, we're not un unfortunately, none of us are getting outta here alive. So, so you gotta, you gotta put that on the bucket list, man. Make it, make it happen. Live, uh, live life to the fullest every single day. There you go. There you go. So what, what gives you the most personal joy in the, in the work that you do?

Uh, that's a tough one because getting back to, um, being allowed the license to play different characters, different aspects of yourself fully, um, it's not, it's not the attention, it's not the notoriety, it's not, I mean, getting paid, getting paid for, getting paid to do what you love to do mm-hmm. Is probably, is, I have to admit is, is, is one of the biggest joys out of it, making a living at something that you love to do.

Is should be everyone's great joy. I think, uh, I take a lot of joy in doing the work that I do. Some jobs are better than others. Some are not fun at all. Right? But when you're the end game, when I shot that, every director was amazing. All the producers were fantastic. The crew was the best crew I've ever worked with, and I fell in love with that cast.

It was, if I never work again, that that will always be my dream job. It was a grown up character on a grown up show. It was, it was truly, it was truly my fantasy who come to life and at, to have had that experience at 60, 61, 62 years old, um, it was worth the wait. Gotcha. It was worth all the crappy jobs. It was worth all the, all the times, waiting tables.

It was worth sitting on a park bench in, in Frankfurt. Pardon. It's very easy for me to get emotional about it because Sure. It has not been an easy journey. Yeah. And business has eaten, eaten up so many people's dreams and hopes. Sure. And so many young people come here, um, and get just swallowed up whole.

And I can see very easily looking back where that could have happened to me. But to be able to hold on this long and have had an experience like that, it's worth all of it. It's worth every single bit of it. And from here on, on it's cake, you know, um, I think the joy, there's joy in, in proving the doubters wrong.

There's joy in, um, working with, um, really creative people. Um, but I think the greatest joy is probably doing what you love and making a living at it. Um, and people respecting you for what you do. Right. That's a great answer, man. I'm, I'm really happy to, to hear that, that you, that you've stayed in it and you climbed the mountain and you made it, you made it to the, to the peak, and you made it to that point.

That's, that's great, man. Well, there's still, there's still some climbing to do. Sure. Sure. Well that's a, that's certainly a very high point then at the very latest, at the very, at the very least I should say. Yeah. So what is, do you have a favorite movie or show that you've been a fan of? And I mean, I mean, maybe your favorite movie is The Godfather or something like that.

Well, there, there, there are way too many, and sure. I sadly, uh, I'm, I will. Um, there, there are movies, there are actors I like for different reasons. There are movies I like for different reasons. There're, there're creative geniuses, like, I mean, I love Pacino mean, uh, um, uh, Robert De Niro and Right. Uh, Daniel Day Lewis is one of the greatest actors in my mind.

And, and there's so many unsung heroes as well, doing smaller characters. I, Meryl Streep, to me is a champion. Uh, they're great movies, but when I, when I think of my favorite movies, I think of Young Frankenstein. Okay. I think of, um, I think of anything Madeline Kahn has ever been in. Oh, sure. Uh, yep. Yep. I think of Camp Kitchy movies like, uh, Annie Mae, that even I, I will pull out and watch when it's, when it's when I'm really feeling blue, because you can't watch that movie and not feel inspired.

Um, uh, strictly Ballroom is another movie, oddly enough. And, uh, there are certain films that, that touch you in a certain way that linger for the rest of your life. I can watch a great performance and go like, uh, Brando A Streetcar is still like that. Come on. That's like genius. He's genius. Um, There, there's so many great actors and so many great films and so many great moments in film, but for me, it's the ones that linger with me.

Right. Uh, and I can think back on and quote that still make me happy. I can watch them over and over and over again. You know, coming, come on, young. Frank is fine. Clarus, Leachman, Terry Gar, uh, uh, um, sure. Um, come on. All the, just all those things that really resonate with you. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then what's something, what's a role that you've been in that you've, where you've, where you've taken, uh, a lot of pride in yourself?

Like for, for accomplishment? Gosh, I don't knows our favorite role that you've played. Even. Um, I played one of the characters in, and I played, it's a two char three character played called Cloud Tectonics. And it was the first time I'd had a lead that big and the character had, uh, Gosh, a three page monologue at one point.

And he goes from being a guy in his twenties to a guy in his eighties at the end of the play, right? And I, I look back on that because I remember feeling just fearless about it. I wasn't nervous. Uh, it was a big role. It was a, it was a beautiful, beautiful play. And I was working with two really talented actors, uh, and it gave me an, I couldn't wait to get back to the theater.

Um, and the same thing with the, a show called Lobby Hero down in, in, uh, San Diego where I was playing the, the, the cop, the dirty cop. I couldn't wait to get back to the theater and, and, and put that uniform on and fill that skin because it, it gave me, not because he was a badass, but because I felt so complete in it, I, I was so prepared for an audience and so prepared for.

It's the journey of these characters. And, uh, um, I've been, I've been really lucky. I've been super lucky. I, I look back and I think, God, I, I'm, I'm one of the luckiest actors I know cause I've gotten to play. I may not have an Oscar, I may not have a house in the hills or any of that stuff, but I've gotten to do so many things that people said I would never get to do.

Right. And I've done 'em well. Um, I feel, I feel good about what I've done and, uh, to be able to put those, those that many different skins on and bring those characters to life and some really great plays, it's, it's really fulfilling creatively to me. Oh, that's fantastic, man. I'm, I'm very happy for you.

You've, you've, uh, cert you've certainly accomplished a lot. And, and for my, for our friends at Beaumont listening, we're, we're, we're all very proud of you and what you've and what you've done. So thanks Paul. No, thank you. And, and, and real, real quick, um Sure. If I could go back. To that little fourth grader sitting in the, in the third or fourth row, wherever in, at Lamar University watching The Hobbit.

I wish I could have told that kid then You're gonna do that someday. Don't be afraid. Right. And there's so many kids nowadays that should be able to hear that, um, from their parents or from their teachers, from mentors, whatever. Don't be afraid. Go do it. Just go do it. Absolutely. Well, and that's a very, that's a, it's another discussion, another seminar almost, if you will.

But I think that framework, uh, from, from being a child, from that, from that standpoint and getting that, that support and being able to, to look at the world through that lens and, and have that, have that framework to go through life with and to take that at that point and then go and go with it is, is critical too.

So, so thank you for pointing. Absolutely. Good man. Good man. So what's, what's next for Mark Espinoza? What, what? Uh, do you have anything in the, in the fire right now? Uh, there, there's, I finished this, a little independent series that a friend of mine wrote, produced and directed. So she's trying to sell that right now.

Okay. Uh, which she might have some luck because with the Rider's strike and, and pending actor strike, um, it's gonna be, it's probably gonna be a long haul, so I'm hoping that maybe she can sell it right now because they'll need content. But my job's looking for work when you get the job. That's the fun part.

That's the vacation. Um, doing the work at this point, um, is, is the joy. Uh, my job's looking for work and I, I still have to audition. I still have to, you know, get, um, get a script, learn the lines, send it in, along with, um, you know, a hundred other guys and maybe you'll get it. Maybe you want, uh, it's still, it's still sitting at the, that table.

Gotcha. There you go. Well, how can, how can our listeners support you? Is there, is there, would you, would you care for fans, people to follow you on social media? Anything like that? Uh, yeah. I, I, I don't, I, I don't get into social media a whole lot. Sure. Um, uh, I, you know, I don't know. I give, for instance, when, when the end game was on, we, we loved having people, uh, write the network or, or write on their Facebook page or whatever.

Sure. Saying how much they love the show. So, you know, the next kid that comes up, um, keep an eye out, keep an eye peeled. Sure. Uh, um, on Instagram, and I think Facebook, the show that the friend of mine wrote, um, and produced on her own, it's called Middle Hood. Okay. And, uh, I think you can find Middle Hood, and I think you can find it on, uh, certainly on Instagram.

I think it's on Facebook as well. Okay. And, uh, they can tune into that. Support it. Yeah. Fantastic. Well, I'll put that in the, in the podcast show notes. And I'm also, if it's okay, I'd like to put your, your I M D B profile in there so everyone can see what all you've done over your first Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, of course.

And follow follow those shows as well. Absolutely. Sure. I appreciate it. No, no, you bet. Well, mark, thank you a ton. This is, this has been a, a tremendous conversation. I've, I've wanted to have, have this conversation with you for probably a few years now, and the, the podcast has afforded me that, uh, that ability to really, really kind of get into, into depth and, and some other, some other things here with you.

So thank you. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you, Greg. I really appreciate it, man. Yeah, thank you, mark. Well, That's gonna do it for us here. So thank you again to everyone for listening to the Heroes and Icons podcast with your host Greg Randolph. And again, a huge thank you and a standing ovation, if you will, for my friend Mark Espinoza.

So everyone have a great night. God bless, and we'll see you next time. Thank you.