Ep.15. Phil Villapiano; Oakland Raiders legendary linebacker

Welcome! And thank you for joining us today on the Heroes and Icons podcast. 

I am your host, Greg Randolph. Please find me on Twitter or the X as it’s called now at HeroesandIconspodcast (@GregHeroesIcons) / X (twitter.com) and on the web at Heroes and Icons podcast with Greg Randolph to get updates for great shows like this and others. If you’re enjoying the show please share it with a friend. Thank you in advance for doing that. 

 We have a very special guest today. If you are a football fan, especially of the NFL and the Oakland Raiders, this gentleman needs no introduction. He was drafted by the Raiders in 1971 out of Bowling Green State after a sterling performance in the Senior Bowl and was the 1971 AFC Defensive Rookie of the Year. He was involved in one of the most famous plays in sports and NFL history, the Immaculate Reception play against the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 1972 AFC Playoffs. He was also in the nostalgic Sea of Hands game against the Miami Dolphins in the 1974 AFC Playoffs. He was a Super Bowl winner in Super Bowl XI, in which he made a momentum-changing goal -line tackle that forced a Minnesota Vikings fumble recovered by the Raiders, who handily defeated the Vikings 32-14. One of the fastest linebackers of his era, known for his big playmaking ability and coverage skills, he made 5 Pro Bowls over his 13 NFL seasons with Oakland from 1971 to 1979 and then Buffalo from 1980 to 1983. After his football playing days were done he has enjoyed a very successful career in the logistics business. In 2018, he was inducted into the Senior Bowl Hall of Fame.  In 2019 he was a Senior Class candidate for the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

In Phil's honor, please visit and support the Mercy Center. Thank you for your generosity! 

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Photo credit: Topps Card Company

Transcript

  Welcome and thank you for joining us today on the heroes and icons podcast. I'm your host greg randolph Please find me on the x as it's called now at heroes icons pod to get updates for great shows like this and others If you're enjoying the show, please share that for me and I appreciate you very much.

We have a very special guest today. If you're a football fan, especially of the NFL and the Oakland Raiders, this gentleman needs no introduction. He was drafted by the Raiders in 1971 out of Bowling Green State after a sterling performance in the Senior Bowl and was the 1971 AFC Defensive Rookie of the Year.

He was involved in one of the most famous plays in sports and N. F. O. History, the immaculate reception play against the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 1972 A. F. C. Playoffs. He was also in the nostalgic sea of hands game against the Miami Dolphins in the 1974 A. F. C. Playoffs. He was a Super Bowl winner in Super Bowl 11 in which he made 

 Momentum changing goal line tackle that forced a Minnesota Vikings fumble recovered by the Raiders who defeated the Vikings that day, 32 14. One of the fastest linebackers of his era, known for his big playmaking ability and coverage skills, he made five Pro Bowls over his 13 NFL seasons with Oakland from 1971 1979 and then Buffalo from 1980 1983.

After his football playing days were done, he has enjoyed a very successful career in the logistics business. And in 2018, he was inducted into the Senior Bowl Hall of Fame. My guest today is Phil Villapiano. It's a tremendous honor to have you on the show with me today, sir. How you doing, Phil? What's keeping you busy these days?

, hello, Greg. , what's keeping me busy? I, I've never been more busy in my whole life after a  I should say after I retired,  it's like I'm busy, but I'm only doing things I wanted to. We did 13 years in the NFL and then we had about  almost 40 years in shipping.

And actually when I played Greg, we,  if you were smart  and you had something, you know, I want to say if you were smart, you would do something  in the six months that they, you know, like  they don't, you know, nowadays, let's say the Raiders, they're in Vegas all year and they're working out all year  when we had the last.

The last play of the last game, they locked the door and you couldn't get in for six months. You better go out and learn something. So when we won the super bowl,, the dunes hotel threw a giant party for the Raiders. And we all went to Vegas. They flew us in there and it was a golfing. Uh, gambling Raider, you know, man, real men's weekend, you know, so I played God for this guy for a couple of days and he ended up wanting to talk to me when we got done.

And he, and he said,  you know, what are you doing in all seasons? And I said, I lift weights. He goes, well, here's my card. When you grow up, give me a call. And I said, what do you mean when I grow up? He goes, You know, you could get hurt tomorrow, but I said, yeah, I know, but that's not that, you know, it doesn't worry me.

And he goes, but you should learn something. And Ben Davidson, who was one of my teammates. Uh, for a few years,  actually told me, Bill, take the business cards of everybody you meet there. You never know when you could, uh, when you'll, you know, might need somebody or whatever. So anyway, I had this guy's card.

I get hurt in Pittsburgh the next year.  I call him up. And I got five off seasons of shipping. So when I got hurt again in my 13th season,  I had a place to go and I had a secondary, I didn't know what I was talking about, but I tried and I ended up having a really great career in shipping. So  as of January one,  I'm technically not working anymore, even though the phone, uh, they, people keep calling me.

I don't want to be working anymore. They're not paying me anymore. So anyway, it's been a good, it's been a great life so far. And yeah, so now I'm out in Palm desert, California. Okay. And like I told you, Greg, I'm having my morning coffee. Yep. And my son is going to show up about 10 o'clock,  and then we're going to go play golf.

It's going to be another beautiful day. Love it. How about all that?  That's great, man.  , let me just ask you  some Raider things here, obviously. So how did, how did you get the nickname Foo? And then how did you, how did you come about the number 41?  Good questions. The nickname Foo came about  Um, came about after my very, well, I ended up, it was my first regular season game. 

And what Al Davis used to do, only the Raiders would do something like this. I've never heard any other team,  you know, would do this, but, um,  he, there was this little, I mean, it was a piece of shit hotel, but they had a ballroom. So I'll rent it out. It was called the Edgewater West. 

But he would throw a party and it was all free booze and, you know, after the game, win or lose, you go there and you, and then you got a table and it was two players at a table And Dwayne Benson, who was a linebacker with the Raiders  and I had, we shared a table and we each could bring in four guests.

So there were like 10 of us.  Anyway,  I started drinking and I, I didn't realize this, but  I, I, my eyes get slanty, you know, when I, when I start to get a little drunk  and Dwayne Benson said, Your name's not Phil, it's Foo. Look at you.  I'm like laughing.  Bottom line, it's stuck. And if I'm in an airport now, and somebody says Foo,  I know it's an NFL guy.

You know, everybody in the NFL calls me Foo. So it, it's stuck. And matter of fact, I was with a fellow yesterday, and the guy goes,  What was your nickname during your NFL days? And I just told him that story yesterday,  like it's a crazy name. Like, I don't even know how you knew that, Greg, but yeah. So I became foo and foo stock and, uh,  You know,  the next part of your question, how did I get 41?

Yeah. Well, when I got 41,  you have no say in the NFL, right? You go to the Raiders, Al Davis, John Madden,  they, they decide everything for you. I kind of, I had a feeling when they gave me 41 that they were thinking I was, you know, I was only, you know, I was like 6, 2, 2 25.  And I kind of thought they were thinking to put me at safety,  which I didn't want to do.

, I wasn't a safety type mentality. . I want to be a linebacker. . But they didn't even care. They gave me a number. I could have been number two or 99. The Raiders, they didn't care about stuff like numbers. They just, they just want you to play. So then I started playing and I'm the only linebacker in the NFL with a 40.

A lot of people remembered me for that. So it was kind of a, you know, it was one of those things I didn't like in the beginning, but I ended up liking it.  And I like our linebacker right now.  From the, you know, the Raider land bagger, number 41. The only problem, he came from the Steelers,  but I'll forgive him, because he's making a lot of tackles.

There you go. . So, , when you hear the name, when anyone hears the name Oakland Raiders, , what does that mean to you with the, with the mystique and everything associated with it? Yeah, well, you know,  um, I'm totally, you know, I'm an Oakland Raider and I loved being in Oakland  and I don't know if you ever heard the story  about me getting traded  and, uh, to Buffalo  and back in those days,  um, and this will all come together in a second here back in those days. 

There's two towns. You didn't want to play it.  Green Bay and Buffalo too cold. They were shitty teams. So if you're good, if your owner didn't like you, you were going to one of those two places. So anyway.  Um, we're all playing golf one day, about 16 of us, and  we, we could pick a golf course. We pick Pebble Beach.

We could pick anywhere. Everybody in the Bay Area loved the Raiders. So we're playing at this place, Alameda, uh, something municipal or something. And we come off and there's the golf pro standing on the steps of the, you know, where you go up into the bar. And, uh,  he goes, you guys.  You ain't gonna believe this and, and what are you talking about?

He goes, you guys are going to Los Angeles  and I'm like, and I'm right next to Gene Upshaw. I said, what's he talking about? He goes, I have no clue. Gene Upshaw knew everything. He was our team captain, but he was him and Al Davis were  buddies. So anyway, he didn't know anything about it. We all go inside. And we start having beers and we all start talking all the, I mean, everybody in the place is a Raider fan.

It was really cool. And then we go over to Dave Dalby's house for a, um, barbecue. And the Oakland Tribune finds out that we're there and, uh, they,  they call. And I think I was probably one of the last guys to  say, you know, get on the, you know, everybody wanted to talk to this guy, talk to this guy. So I get on there.

And, uh,  I guess what I said wasn't so good. And I do remember saying that Al Davis is just a greedy blah, blah, blah. He don't care about this town that shows you where you, you know, your question about Oak. I loved Oakland. He don't care about this town.  I, I can't believe we're  going to LA. It's all about money for him.

Hey, why not? It's a business. And you know, I, I was talking my line backing love for the Raiders, Oakland self. So bottom line, uh, you know, we get done. I don't, don't even remember what I said next morning in the Oakland Tribune.  Filippiano won't go, and  my, my wife looked at me and she said, you're gone. Well, it took, you know, we weren't leaving till 1980.

So that was 77, you know, so  bottom line, I'm back in New Jersey, working at shipping job. I told you about it's off season.  And I come back from church, me and my two kids and, and Patty's sitting there and she goes, Al's on the phone. He wants to talk to you.  I said, it's nine o'clock in the morning. We had six o'clock out there.

I wonder what he wants. Because I don't know. It's probably important. So out, what are you doing? Hey, Phil, how are you, man? Are you strong? Are you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I said, Oh, I'm strong. I can't wait, man. I can't wait to get back out there. He goes, yeah, but I got to ask you a question.  I said, what?  He goes, you played in a pro ball game with Bob Chandler from Buffalo. 

I said, yeah, I did.  And he goes,  what's he like?  I said, I liked the guy. Are you kidding me? Actually. It reminds me a lot of Fred Blitnikoff. Sure. And I've got the long blonde hair and, you know, and he runs precise routes and yeah, and he's a good guy. He goes, Phil, I don't want to make a mistake. You know, Freddie's gone.

Cliff may have a problem and we need, we need a great receiver.  I said, Al, I think he's a perfect pick, but he, but you know, he's a pro ball guy.  And he, and he, and he, and I said, yeah, go get him. And he goes, but I said, you're, but you're going to have to give up somebody pretty good, but no big deal. And he goes, yeah, I was thinking about you. 

And I said, what?  You're going to trade him for me?  And he goes, yeah, yeah. And I start backpedaling and saying, Al,  come on, you're kidding with me. He goes, No,  I could make the deal. I could make the deal. And then I said,  and Patty was sitting next to me and she was kind of listening. And  she started laughing because she was the one who said you're gone.

Just took him three years to get me to, you know, get the right deal. So anyway. I, I, that's how I got traded to Buffalo and you know, I'm an Oakland Raider when I went to Buffalo, I was an Oakland Raider when I came out of, I came out of football, I'm still an Oakland Raider, even though  I love Vegas and I love Mark Davis.

I love what he's done. I love the stadium is he built. I still blame the city of Oakland and the stupid, uh, politicians for. You know, there's  tons of money in the Bay area, tons. And there's tons of rich cities around Oakland somehow or another, they could have got money and built a new stadium. It was disgusting.

So what I think the Bay area is now robbed of the. The, the A's are leaving, you know, the Raiders are gone, the Warriors are gone. These politicians ruined Oakland. That's the one  cool little thing about,  you know, about the Bay Area was Oakland and they've ruined it. I go back there, I'll go back there in a couple of weeks.

We got a little birthday party for John Vela and I'm going to go back there. It just breaks my heart  what happened and there's no coming back. They'll never have what they had.  You know, and even  they should have learned a lesson with the Raiders leaving. They're going to build a stadium for the A's and kick them right down by the water.

It would have been beautiful, but they couldn't get that done either. So,  it's a shame. It is a shame. You played in such an incredible era of early 70s football at the time of the merger. There were some great old school guys there that you got to play with, with the Raiders. , Daryl LaMonica, the Mad Bomber.

George Blanda. I remember the Grecian formula commercially did in the mid 70s. That's how old I am.  Did George do it? I didn't even realize that. Yeah, it was about the time, it was, it was around 76, 77, about the time he retired. Yeah. I somehow remember that. Anyway, but you know, Otto, Davidson, Banaszak, Boletnikoff, Stabler, all those guys.

Um, what was, what was that, that like in that, to, to play in that. in that time period in the early 70s of the NFL. Well, I couldn't, ,  have got, it's a great, great question, Greg. But I couldn't have got on a more perfect team for me.  That goes back to my, my mother listening to this.  So I come home from Bowling Green my senior year.

We got a, uh, you know, it's for Thanksgiving. You know, we,  I don't even think there was a bowl game for Bowling Green. You don't get in even if we played good. Anyway, so we got Thanksgiving and the Raiders are playing. The lions on Thanksgiving.  Remember every year to lions play somebody. So , we're sitting in the, in the room.

Now  I'm hoping to get drafted, you know, but I don't think I'm going to get drafted because I went to Bowling Green. Who's going to draft me out of Bowling Green.  So anyway,  we're in the room, the TV room in my house and the announcer say, Hey, we've got this new thing. And this is. What, 1960, I mean, 70, 

the new thing was they mic'd up the coaches on the sideline. And we're going to get to hear the coaches coach today.  So, bottom line, opening kickoff,  the Raiders are going, running down the field, opening kickoff, and the, and the, the coaches say, Get that mother, get that mother, ba ba ba ba, you know, they're screaming.

So the mic'd up coaches. Only lasted about five minutes. And then my mother said, that team is disgusting. And she walks out of the room after the coaches are swearing.  Bottom line, bottom line, I said, man, I want to be a Raider. That was my mentality. I could, I could deal with  that mentality. So  yeah, there are, there I go.

 As you know, I ended up getting drafted by the Raiders and the guys, your question was.  The guys,  it was amazing. George Blanda was my guy when he was with the Houston Oilers. Sure. And you saw him do a Grecian formula commercial. I didn't realize that. I wish he was alive. I would, I would say, look at my, my white hair.

George, give me some.  But anyway, um,  when I If I was playing  and I came to the sideline, you, you got a problem. If you miss a tackle, you got  John Madden, number one, you got your linebacker coach. Number two, you got George Bland and number three, you got Jim Otto. Number four, you got Fred Politnikoff. You got Ken Stegman.

These guys demanded,  demanded. That you  play  110 percent every single play. It was, it was an amazing football team,  but besides the guys demanding and everybody demanded everybody to play great.  That's why I think the Raiders were so good for so many years because of it was like your peer pressure, you know, I'm gonna miss a tackle and give it to Jack Tatum, who's right behind me,

making this tackle. You know what I mean? It was kind of cool. And, um,  and,  and, you know, you've read the books and all that. Besides them be everybody being such professionals, they were the best, best partiers.  Of any, I mean, we had a great thing. We played hard and we partied hard and we got these crazy reputations and, you know, with Al Davis and John Madden, you know, wear whatever you want,  cut your sleeves, you know, do whatever you do, whatever you want.

But just when  that became the everybody in the league, I can't tell you how many of my friends around the league wanted to be a Raider because we were the only team  that was that way. Right. At that time. . I mean, right now you look at the Kansas City Chiefs. I mean, I don't know if I would have ever bumped John Madden, but I think, uh, Kelsey and, and, and Andy Reed just bumped each other, but  that was pretty intense.

And I loved after the game, they're hugging each other. Yeah, man. That was that I thought that was pretty cool for that. So for the love of God, , can anyone imagine like a gym manager, somebody bumping a Don Shula?  , that would not have gone. For a second  without that death stare now.

 Andy just turned and Kelsey was coming at him. ? Hey, Kelsey wants the ball. Give me the ball. I'll get you a touchdown. , you know, it was all it all worked out pretty good. But you know, I think,  yeah, I like the Chiefs. Now I like the Ravens. I like it. You know, I like all the AFC guys,

you know,  like a lot of people were talking last week. Who am I rooting for?  Wait a minute. I'm rooting for the AFC. I'm rooting for the AFC West. Right. Above all things. Yep. You know, I still don't like the NFC.   When I got in the league with that, they only been around two years.

 . So.  You know, there was a chip on everybody's shoulder because the NFC really thought they were so much better and stronger, and they had the better beat players.  I remember when we were at Super Bowl XI, we're the underdogs to the Minnesota Vikings. We're looking at these guys, were they underdogs? 

You know?  I bet Kenny Stabler made him a lot of money that day,  not that, not that he would ever bet.  Sure, sure, . I mean, but that was a great era , with those coaches and, , so many tremendous players . You guys all worked hard.

You wanted to be the best. You could say that about any, I think a whole lot of teams as well , as the Raiders, you know, Shula, Landry, Noel,  you know, you know, the great, the great coaches at the great teams that won every year. They all had a different style. I mean, I remember going to a pro ball game and we had the Steeler coaches. 

Thank God for the linebacker coach. Woody. His name was Woody some,  but,  uh, no one would even talk to me  because I was a raider, right? The Steelers hated the Raiders. We hated them. , we hated them. You know, we hated the, uh, the Dolphins, you know, back in those days, the Chiefs, Dolphins, Raiders.  Yeah.

Steelers. Yep. They were, they were cut above. Yeah. But you, I mean, do you guys dominate though, and to your, to your point about, about the NF, the NFC not, not liking you guys, I mean, the AFC  won an awful lot of Super Bowls. Yeah. After that, I mean, the, I think the, the,  let's see, Green Bay won the first two and then, and then the Cole, I'm sorry, the Cowboys won Super Bowl six.

against the Dolphins. But I mean, like past that, like in those first 10 12 15 years, I mean, you didn't see the NFC winning a whole lot of those Super Bowl. So that that you guys definitely proved yourselves. Yeah, I think so.  And you know, there was a little bit of a little bit of  a incentive, right? It was kind of it was just fun.

It was fun being the AFC guys. I remember playing in the Pro Bowl when it was for Keeps. Yeah. And, uh, I remember playing again, whoever they put up a tight end, that guy was going to have a hard day because  you just, you, you know, you wanted to show the AFCs the best conference and you didn't have say he, they're the best NFC against the best, the best conferences, the best players.

Let's have a war. I loved, I loved the Pro Bowl games. And now, oh my God, what a shame,  what's happened to that. It's not even in Hawaii anymore. That was the, I think that was the, a big point of having the Pro Bowl. You got rewarded for having a great season, being voted to the Pro Bowl. You got to go to Hawaii and you were one of the, you were voted one of the best by your peers.

Yeah. Well, that was, that's true. But you know, I never got to Hawaii because that was after me. I went to.  Yeah, Miami, Kansas City. Oh, man. Seattle.  And where else? Another. So I got four in a row, and they were all over the place. I remember going to Kansas City, and it was freezing. Yeah. What are we doing here? 

It was so cold. But  I'm just happy to be a part of that. . And you were in, you know, back to the, to, to you guys hating the Steelers, you were , in the epic game, the Immaculate Reception game. And with your, with your friend, the late great Frank O'Harris, and, uh, you were also in , the Dolphins  Sea of Hands game.

Well, I'll get to that one in just a second, but let me start with the, uh, the Immaculate Reception game. Can you, can you tell me what, what happened on, on that play where, where you were and you were, I know you were clipped.  Yeah, that was,  that was nuts, Greg. The, uh, I remember being in the huddle.  And so it's my second year.

Franco is a rookie.  And, uh, we got the game, I mean, Kenny just, Kenny comes in, Kenny bootlegs, goes around what, 25 yards or something for touchdown. We got him the fourth down and 22,  fourth and 22.  And  I'm in the huddle and we got this, we got this thing we put in for situations like that, where they took out the middle linebacker, Dan Connors and Gerald Irons, and I stayed in and we're guarding, I got Franco, he's got Fuqua,  so, and then the other guys are going to make like a little dome, so we're going to have a zone deep and man to man up, up tight, up close.

. So I said, no. Penalties. No guys, no penalties. We're out of here. One play. We're going, we're going out to the playoffs.  So,  , you know, Bradshaw's  height, you know,  takes a snap.  I don't know how many holding penalties they could have called on the lineman. Our guys were being tackled.

They weren't going to get in no matter what. But somehow I think it was. A horse Jones actually got in and spooked him out. He got running over there and I swear he just threw the ball down the field. And here we got that deep, that deep zone. And Tatum comes up and nails, no. Well, let me back up a sec.  I go on Franco.

I grab him and then I took my hands off him real quick because, you know, in Pittsburgh, you could have got a flag for doing anything.  So I took my hands down  and  he's kind of  going over here very slowly. And Franco starts sprinting down the field and I'm running right on his inside, but I see what's going to, I see where Tatum  is coming up on Fuqua.

I mean, I'm looking right at it. I'm going over there just in case I have to help.  And then Tate hits Frenchie  and the ball goes off his shoulder right directly over my head.  And I turned, I turned back over here and here's Frank go catching it.  Well, we had maybe caught it, maybe hit the ground. We don't know.

There was no good film of if he caught it or not. Right. Bottom line.  He was out of here like a dart. I make a move on of the guy making dives in the back of my legs. I don't fall. If I fell, maybe we get a clipping call, ? I should have. I should have fallen, but I thought I could make the play. Yeah. 

Franco Harris is a lot faster than you think when he wants to run that guy was out of there and he was going down the field and  so the play is over  and John Madden is going wacky. Yeah, and I'm like,  what's, you know, what's he going wacky about and he's out on the field and I think you've probably seen clips and he's on the field yelling and screaming  and. 

I didn't even know the rule  if it goes from offensive guy to an offensive guy  plays dead.  You can't do that. You could do it now, but you can't do it then. So anyway, Matt is saying that I don't even think the referees knew you got to remember I was 1972, these referees taught school during the day. I mean, they blew in.

I mean, come on, they were not professional referees like they are now.  Holy mackerel. So, so  I said to myself, coach don't usually act like this. Right. Unless he knows something.  So,  I had no idea.  I'm just over there. I'm pissed. Franco was my guy.  He scores touchdown.  All I was trying to do was. Do what I usually do, trying to make a tackle.

They got lucky, you know, I'm thinking, you know, we lost.  So now it goes on and on and on. And there's no decision  until they called New York and all that stuff. And then the referee comes out of the dugout. It goes touchdown. Holy mackerel. Madden went nuts again.  And then we finally got it. The field was swarmed. 

I can't believe.  You know, I  mean, the police had lost control and we finally got in the locker room  and John told us,  and I'm like, holy mackerel,  we could, we, he says, guys, you won that game. That was, they took that from us. Al Davis comes in,  you won that game. I'm like, holy mackerel, I can't believe this, , this was my second year in the league.

And I'm going to tell you one thing, Greg.  I was exhausted.  I beat up.  You know, it's so hard to be a pro football player. It's it's amazingly it on your body. You get so beat up. And  I was sitting there like exhausted  and thinking  maybe we have to go to Miami.  I didn't even know if I wanted to go. But anyway,  it was the math.

The medical reception was nuts. And. You know, the Raiders, we got, we got a lot of those games. I don't know how we got in so many of those crazy games, but we did. And that was just one that went the other way, but you know, like you mentioned, Franco  and I were both from New Jersey. We both had the Italian heritage.

My,  um,  our friendship actually started in. 1972,  I was the Italian, uh, New Jersey Italian player of the year in 71. In 72, he wins it. My parents, my father,  so he, he loved the Italians, so they invited him to come back to Trenton. It was in Trenton.  And Franco's parents show up and Franco's mother speaks the same dialect as my father from the same part of Italy.

Wow. And they, they spoke Italian the whole day. They had a great time. So Franco,  we must have played him in, in, in the seven, in 73.  And, and he goes, Bill, I got to tell you something. My mother and your father, I said, Franco, I know. So we, this was after a game, we're walking off the field, talking about our parents and we, and we became very good friends and you know, then when,  you know, then the, uh, you know, through the immaculate reception, we, we really didn't,  we really didn't talk a whole bunch about that. 

Until later, . And then we'd be, then we got, we, we did so many dinners together and, you know, matter of fact,  , the morning he died, , Janie and I were packing our bags. We're going to Pittsburgh for the 50 year, , reception or anniversary of the Macca reception. They were going to retire his Jersey. 

Everything was going to be wonderful. And he dies that morning.  So Mike Siani, who was also going,  Mike and Franco were good buddies  and, um, they, they played in a few all star games together and they got drafted the same time.  So Mike calls me up and goes.  What do you think?  I said, now more than ever.  Let's go to Pittsburgh.

He goes, okay, I'll meet you there. So , Mike and I went to Pittsburgh. We did. We instead of all the things we had planned for Franco's, you know, being alive,  um, you know, we turned it into one big  dinner.  We call it the celebration of Franco's life. It was a beautiful thing. And, uh, you know, I got to speak that night and  I could go on and on about the Immaculate Reception when I, when I get in, you know, in front of Pittsburgh people, they committed  probably 20 penalties. 

I, I make up things every time I talk about it, it gets worse. But yeah, I lost a good, good friend in Franco and, you know, I told his son,  Doc, we talked. December 24th this year,  September 23rd.  So doc, and I talked and, uh, I said, doc, for now on, I'm calling you  because your father, you see Franco, we call me every December 23rd around four Oh seven in the afternoon.

No, you want to know what I was doing 30 years ago, 35 years. Right. So it became fun. And then we'd catch up every year. It was really good. Matter of fact, a good story. Did I. Um,  when Franco, one of the times we were talking, he goes, Hey, Phil, you know, the,  I want to do something. It's on my bucket list. And I go, what is that?

He goes, I want to go to Oakland. Because this is the, the Raiders last year in Oakland was,  you know, what, four years ago or something.  And, and Franco says, I want to go to Oakland as a spectator and just see how crazy that stadium is and all that., I said, Franco, no problem. When do you want to go?

He goes, I want to go for the Steeler game. It's the last game of the season. Let's go. I said, okay, let's do it. So anyway, we fly into town, we were staying at the Marriott downtown. He paid, you know, Franco shows. I show we meet in the park. I said, okay, I got the, I told them I got the weekend. Don't think about it.

So we go out to Orinda and Bob Moore who played tight end with us. And Jim Plunkett, uh, who's Bob, they both played at Stanford. Bob was the big receiver at Stanford, ? Plunkett. And Bobby show up, me and Franco show up. So all our wives show up. So we have a nice dinner and then that was Saturday night.

Sunday, we go to the stadium. I got the black hole now. And I probably know we've got a greater fans listening to where this was the real black hole, which used to happen in the parking lot and they would have a tent.  And it was nuts and a bar and bartenders and they got everybody's dressed up in every all the characters are there. 

And I, I got the president to induct Franco into the black hole.  In the parking lot and they gave him a plaque and they gave him a crazy helmet and all this nutty stuff. And then I said, Franco, come on, we got to go. Okay, so we go, we got, we got a guy. Now the Raiders gave us this cart with the police. Down in the tunnel, right onto the field or on the field.

We've got Mark Davis out there. Reggie Jackson from the A's was out there. We had, uh, uh, Reggie McKenzie was the general manager at the time. So Reggie had everything planned out. And when Franco came out, Oh, and Mark Davis was out in the middle of the field. We're all dressed in white like his father. So I brought Franco out there and then he got introduced to the stadium  from the 50 yard line, Mark Davis, step back and point it to Franco.

And ladies and gentlemen.  We, you know, this all guy at me with COR the, or the Raiders did all this choreo choreography. It was some cool thing. And Franco got introduced in Oakland standing ovation. That's the way the Raider fans are. They appreciated him, you know, for being such a great player. And yeah, that was,  that all came from the immaculate reception, you know,

So with that, all that, that goes on forever and ever and ever.  I'm so glad that you guys got to celebrate his life I , they did the 40th  anniversary.  Remember that, you know, we were in Three Rivers Stadium, ? So now they built the other stadium. Somebody found the exact spot on the ground where it happened.

It's in the parking lot. Right. And so at the 40th year anniversary.  Franco invited me back. We, we did our thing again  and they put the monument  in the parking lot.  So the, the Steelers did do a very, that was a beautiful weekend. Steelers put that one on.  I was a Raider. I, I represented the Raiders and, uh, we had, we had so many things.

And the reason I got him, I put him  inducted into the black hole. It's because he inducted me into Franco's Italian army  that weekend. So they gave me the helmet  and then we gave him a helmet too.  Very cool stuff. Very cool.

 They were, I mean, he was going to be alive. . You know? . And it would have been, it would have been a wonderful thing. So he would, you know, got in the Hall of Fame and,  you know, and then.  Retiring his number. , that was gonna be a big weekend.  . Very good. Well as I told you i'm, , a lifelong dolphins fan and I guess I have to somewhat  begrudgingly Mentioned the sea of hands game, but history is history um, but what was what was that game like I mean you you actually intercepted bob greasy to to close out that game  and win it for you guys.

But what was that game like? Well, that, that was probably one of the most up and down football games I was ever in. . I don't know if a lot of people don't even remember. We were so ready  to beat the dolphins  and the dolphins are good. I mean, they're a great team and Don Shula and John Madden preached all week long.

You can't make any mistakes in this game. All the reps are against you because. Don Chula is on the committee, the refs answered him, UK, we got to be lily white, blah, blah, blah. So we, everybody in town  brings, you know, they, when we went to play the Dolphins a year before, they're all waved in the white handkerchiefs. 

And  that day. , everybody's got black bras and underwear and towels and everybody's get the place is going crazy for the opening kickoff, ? Everything black, black, black, black. We kick it off to the dolphins  and that more runs 100 yards for a touchdown.  The stadium went  all in a great, uh, we were, everybody was so fired up.

And all of a sudden we're down seven, nothing.  And then it was a, it was a fight the whole day, just a fight to,  you know, get back and I,  I don't know if we ever led.  Until,  until, you know, um, snake did the sea of ants. I think that was the first time the whole day we got ahead. I think we were always behind him. 

And I remember, oh God, I was, I was going to be the goat of the game, but it actually turned out pretty good.  They put in there.  They're,  they're tight end. I forgot, forgot his name probably, man. Something fl happened to him.  Mandi, what's that man? Uh, Jim Mandich or, uh, Mar Fleming. Probably.  Jim Mandi.  Good, really good player.

Mar Fleming, older Green Bay packer, right? Mm-Hmm. . . So  Mandich gets hurt  and  I, I just, I gotta make a play. I gotta make a play. In comes Fleming,  I said This guy can't block me.  So  it ends up, it's going to be a sweep  and I took the inside, he suckered me into it and just blew me down.  The guy goes around the end.

And remember, uh, we had a mistackle out there by somebody, and I forgot who ran it, about 25  yards for a touchdown. I think that was Cliff Branch for you guys. The Dolphin didn't touch him down, and he got up and ran it, ran it down in for the touchdown. Well, wait a minute. I'm not talking about,  the Dolphins have the ball,  and now they score.

Okay. But they scored and left Kenny some time. . And then we came down the field. Oh, no, that was, that was, that was Benny Malone. He scored too soon. Ben Malone, you're right. He scored too soon. That's right. That's right. Yeah. So he scores, but we got time. Yeah. And then we come down and uh, and then,  , Clarence Davis, he can't catch a cold and he somehow or another, he catches that pass.

That was nuts. And, and, you know, and so snakes falling down, flips it in the end zone. And when, you know,  , so now we got to stop them because you got to remember you got one of the best kickers in the world and the  goalposts are on the goal line in those days,  all they got to do is cost a 50 and they're going to make it.

So,  we were playing, you know, we were playing  greasy. I'm, you know, I'm thinking to myself,  Paul Warfield's the best guy in the league.  He's over there on the other side of the field. Other than me. I'm dropping back and I'm looking, and here comes Paul, and I just took off. Boop, I went right in front of him, caught the ball. 

And then  the thing, one of the most happiest things that, that I did, and,  and John appreciated this too, man,  you know a lot of guys keep those balls. I went over and gave John that ball. Right there. The game is over. I give John the ball. John raises it up and remember the people were coming down on.  He wanted to win that game so bad  that he deserved the ball.

And there we were. We're moving on. You know, that was a, that was a great game. Yeah. And, uh, it was probably one of the most craziest games I've ever been in. Up and down, up and down, up and down. And then it turned out great. It, , what a great game in NFL history, and it just seems like whenever,  , there's a game like that, , there's one big play , that someone manages to, to make, and they just had, , they really rise to the occasion and make, and make that play and, and propel their team , to victory, you know, the Mahomes, , Stabler, Davis, , Franco Harris, whatever.

, it just seems like there's that one big play that, , changes the outcome. Yeah. You know what you're right in that, in that immaculate, I mean, see a hands game,  there was a bunch of big place, you know, at which he even made it better. Yeah. So yeah, it was a great game to be in. I remember, and my wife was up in the stands and I bought her this little TV set.

So she could,  she liked to watch the instant replays and stuff. So she's got the TV set. She said that she was ready to throw the TV set when they were so happy. You know, it was nuts. Oh man.  Well, let me,  ask you a couple more things here if I can. And then, and then, , please go run and, you know, hit them straight and play some good golf today.

Will do. I hope.  Well, let me, um, let me ask you, there was a, there was a story that I read that , in, in 2001, um,  the New Jersey sports writer and author Jerry Eisenberg wrote a great piece about, about you, um, um,  Super Bowl XI ring to a Raiders fan who , had , an injured leg and had to do a lot of, had to go through a whole lot of rehab just to even have a chance of walking.

And,  you offered him your, your ring , Hey, you know, you're going to need some inspiration  was there, was there something that, that inspired you to, to help this fan or was it the, was it the Raider bond? Was it something along those lines? Yeah, Greg, it was, it was, you know, that was a 9 11  happened,  right? 

. And the NFL shut down  that Sunday. This was a Tuesday, right? Pretty 9 11. They shut down a week. And then the following weekend I had bought, uh, uh, you know, from my company, I rented the suite, big suite at the game. We got the bartender, blah, blah, blah.  But you gotta remember what the United States.  Was so we were, we were real and man,  we all, everybody was coming together.

Finally, everybody was coming together and it felt so good, you know, to, that the NFL was starting up again. And I don't know, I really took that to heart and I couldn't wait to get back into Coliseum, my customers flying in from everywhere. We had a, we had a really great day.  Bloody.  Versus Gannon,  Gannon wins the game, like 35 to 32, some crazy score.

And we're all drinking in the booth. And finally they're knocking on the door. I said, Phil, you got to go. And it's, you know, you've been in here two extra hours. So anyway, we're walking out there and I don't know who needs a beer more, me or some of my people.  And when we, there was a group, I said, Hey man, we're in Oakland.

Let's go over there. We'll get a beer. So I go over there and there's this guy sitting in a wheelchair.  His name is  Mitch Ulrich. Really, really good, man. He's sitting in the chair. He's got these two girls, little girls next to him, five, five, six years old.  And I go, what happened to you? And he's got the paint on his face.

I mean, he's a real rigger  because I dove in the pool. I broke my neck. Oh man. Now  it just so happens. Conrad Dobler and I are best friends. His wife. Is in a hammock.  Somebody dove in a hammock and it spun  and she goes right down and breaks her neck. So at that time, I'm very up on broken necks.  And I, I said, Oh man,

conrad's wife told me I'm going to walk again because I didn't sever my spinal cord.  I said,  and then she goes, technically, if you don't sever your spinal cord, you know, he. You can rehab yourself back into walking.  So I told the guy, I said, Oh, so you must've broke your neck.  And he goes, no, I didn't.  I said, well, then why are you sitting in this wheelchair?

Get up.  And he,  he looked at me. I said, get up, man. You didn't break your neck. You're a Raider. Get up.  And he pushes  in his whole body.  There's nothing left. Nothing left. Nope. No, no muscles. I said, no, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.  I said, but you know that you can walk again.  And he goes, you know, Phil, I know, but I haven't really  given it to effort. 

And it's one of his friends is standing there. And I said,  and his name was John.  And I said, John,  is this guy for real? Is he full of shit?  Phil, he's the most for real guy you'll ever meet.  I said, well, John, would you be his coach and you coach him back?  And John says, I will do that. I will coach him every day and make sure he works out.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I had my Superbowl running on. I said, Mitch, give me your hand. And I slid my ring on his finger.  I said, give this back to me when you can walk.  And he goes, no, I can't take this ring. I said, you got the ring. Keep the ring. It's yours. Till you can walk. I'm only loaning it to you. 

Two years later,  I'm doing a super bowl show up in  Reno, Nevada with Doug Conrad dollars there. Glenn Carano owns the hotels up there.  Uh, the word got out that that's  Mitch is going to walk.  Reno,  E-S-P-N-A-B-C-N-B-C. Everybody's there to see this thing happen. Yeah, we got, okay, we got up on, you know, he comes in Saturday  in a wheelchair  and I said, Mitch,  you're in a wheelchair.

He said, I told you I'm gonna walk tomorrow. That's all I want.  I'm walking,  so  comes in  41 jersey on base paint. Everything  goes up to the stage. In his wheelchair,  a couple of the guys that were actually at when I gave my ring to him  are there. They lift him up and put him on the stage. Glenn Carano who owns the hotel, Silver Legacy. 

is telling everybody what's going to happen.  And then he gives me the microphone  and Mitch is over there and he's got these two little canes on his hands.  So he's standing up  and he starts shaking now. And then I say,  I do my little thing and I said, okay, Mitch, and I'm about eight feet away.  I said, give me my ring back. 

And he starts shaking  and shaking and shaking.  And he moved his foot about an inch  and then he starts shaking and shaking  and move his other foot and now he's like can't catch his balance and then he gets up and he throws those crutches aside and now he's shaking like crazy. And meanwhile, I'm getting closer because I noticed  something bad's going to happen. 

He took one more step  and it grabbed me around my neck. Now he's holding on to me and I got to get it back up. I said, Mitch, you walked, you walked, that place went crazy. His mother was crying, his daughters were crying. It was  unbelievable what happened that day.  I got my ring back. Matter of fact, my ring is here somewhere. 

, and it was just a wonderful thing. Started a lifelong relationship with Mitch Ulrich and,  , I'd like to say one more thing about that. Sure. My mother was 93. She's back in New Jersey. . And  she's watching a good morning show.  And the announcer goes, You're not going to believe what an Oakland Raider did yesterday. 

My mother said she knew it was me.  She didn't know anything. She didn't know nothing. So after the commercial, they have to film  of Mitch  doing that, you know, and diving on me and everybody crying and so happy.  My mother calls me, Philip, you never told me, my mother's crying  about,  uh, let's say,  let's say a month later, I get a call from Oprah Winfrey, producer of her show, she said, Phil, you need to be in Chicago  on this date. 

I said, I would, but I can't.  I needed to be in Houston on that date. I was, you know, it was a big business thing. I had set up my whole week.  She said,  the producers is, well, can I send somebody to your house  and get some stuff? You can't be there. So they came, they came to my house, got some all kinds of pictures and they, they did the best they could, but, um, they have these awards every year.

 Oprah has the awards.  And I got the most inspirational award of that year. I inspired this guy to walk,  but the cool thing  was Oprah  gave him a one year scholarship at this place in San Diego called,  uh, project walk. That was the name that's still there. Yeah. Anybody who's got a broken neck, I got you'd buy.

So anyway, Mitch, all expenses paid for a year. Goes to  down the project walk  and they worked them and they worked them and they worked them  mitch today  Uses crutches  because you know a lot of people don't realize this crutches is better than a wheelchair Yes, you know if you can use , most people learn in wheelchair can't walk.

But anyway, he's After he came out of project walk, he could use crutches. Matter of fact, I went to visit him down there  and he was like running with his crutches. He became so good at it. So yeah, that turned out to be very nice. And you know,  Oprah Winfrey jumped in. I was wonderful.  Everything about that thing was great.

Why I did it. I have no clue. I just, I think it was because of nine 11  and You know,  knowing a little bit about broken necks and the guy and his daughters. And that's that's what I did  right place at the right time. And what? What a great inspiration. I know. I know how much he he must appreciate you and love you for that. 

For everything that you did for him. That's great, man. It was good. It was all about him, you know, and I do a lot of stupid things Goofy things  and I always seem to get  it always turns out to be the right thing So i'm almost thinking  You know, um,  maybe I, you know, you know, in a Catholic religion, we call it grace, right?

Right, you know,  Hail Mary full of grace, right? Yeah, I think I got a bunch of grace inside of me. That always helps me out when I need it. Like I got my ring back. You know, , the guy didn't take off in my ring, like some people might have happened. A lot of good things happened to me in my life.  And now, like I told you before, Greg, I finally retired and  hopefully. 

We can go on and have a bunch more years of good stuff. There we go. Love it.  , let me ask you one more question here. So , in the past, you were involved in a, um, a parent initiative called Flag Football Under 14 with,  some other NFL greats like, , Harry Carson and the late great Nick Bonacani.

What was , that organization, what was the initiative or the outset of that to, to prevent kids from, from playing tackle football,  past the, or before the age , of 14.  Yeah. You know, I, it all started, yeah, and I re, I remember.  I, God, this was terrible. 

Nick Bonacani, Harry Carson, myself,  , we became like the, you know, the guys, the DNF, all guys behind this.  And  all it was, was a man,  just  give yourself some time, give yourself some time to get your neck stronger. Give yourself some time to get your brain, you know, uh, to grow up a little bit in who knows  I mean, nobody really knows, but there, there is a group up in Boston  and  they,  they started, they had the idea that if they just don't  hit, hit your heads, you know, get, just get older before you hit your heads and, and it might stop all these concussions.

And this was right when CTE started. . And you remember the stealing guys and all that stuff. So, yeah, we came up with the idea and we, we backed it.  And, you know, Nick Bonaconti was a dear friend.  And the last time I saw Nick, we were in New York city and we were kicking off this, you know, under 14 don't hit till you're over 14. 

And Nick, I got CTE and  he couldn't even speak. I've never seen.  Nick was, I flew from a pro ball game. He was the middle linebacker. I was an outside linebacker. We flew back to Miami together. He, we talked the whole time. I wouldn't let him go to sleep because I want to pick his brain on everything.  And to see him the last time  when he couldn't even speak because it is CTE.

That even solidified it more where Harry and I were like, man, we're doing the right thing. And, and yeah, we got, uh, there's a lot of, um,  play flag football, you know, just don't, you know, don't use your head. And you also got to think, I think about coaches. . You get some maniac coach that played high school football and he wants to kill the kids.

No, that shouldn't be what football is all about, you know, um,  I like, I mean, I like when Pete Carroll was teaching his guys to tackle and roll,  don't stick your  face into the knee. Oh my God. I can't tell you, Greg, how hard, how, uh,  how many times  I did that. I mean, right into the knee, face to face. . Oh.

Oh. Oh. I  feel pretty good, but man, I worry to, you know, I saw Nick go from great to nothing and, you know, um,  anything that could make football safer, um, for, and anything that could make football stick around. I mean, do you remember all the CTE when the movie came out?  The concussion movie. What's it called?

Concussion. That's it.  And you start talking about stopping football. You can't stop football. The greatest game in the world, but make it safer if you can.  What do you think about, , About the rules  with the quarterback now . It seems like the quarterbacks are protected so much We almost have to pick them up and set them down to you as opposed to  sacking them And maybe i'm over exaggerating but but it it seems like  the pendulum is Maybe swung a little too far the other way.

Well, yeah, but yes and no, , you know You you could see  how guys  Um, hit quarterbacks in the old days, my, my era. Yeah. Oh my God. We could do anything, anything we wanted to anybody. . And all of a sudden you can stop doing that if it's a 15 yard penalty, ? So maybe you're right. Maybe it's swung a little bit too far, but I'm telling you, and I saw it coming when, when they used to go at Brady's legs,  right?

He'd step up and the guys be hitting them in the knee.  That's, that's a cheap shot. That, that, you know, the blocks on the side of the knees. Those are cheap shots, and you know, they don't belong in football, ? And I think protecting the quarterback, the quarterbacks are fun.  And I know when  I'm hitting somebody  at a certain level, and you know, I didn't need to do that.

We did it anyway, because that's the way it was. You can, I mean,  I'll never forget. We're playing against the Chiefs  and we hate the Chiefs and Pogolac gets tossed and he breaks it around the other side of the field and George Atkinson, who's in strong safety behind me, is winning. Oh, he's a nasty, nasty player. 

And I'm running right behind him and Pogolac  is going up the sideline and George could either probably shove him,  hit him with, you know, a shoulder  or he could club him.  And  what do you think he did? Bam! Clubs him right in the face. It was a cheap shot.  No, you know,  I'm right behind him. This guy's come running off the bench. 

And he's going to hit George, but he don't see me.  I could have done shove him  or hit him with my shoulder, or I could club him. And you don't even see me right in his face.  And then I go down, I'm under the bench. The chiefs are kicking me, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But.  That's the way football used to be.

You, if I clubbed any, if George clubbed him, he'd be out of the game. If I clubbed him, I'd be out of the game. But that was the way it was. So I think in the NFL now,  they're getting, they're getting to where they're not calling every single penalty on a defensive backs. And I think they're They got it right with the quarterbacks, you know, I mean, you could,  uh, you know, the poor guy from Miami a couple of years ago to, uh, right. 

Oh my God, he's, he gets up and falls down. My God, you know, he's knocked out, and that was technically, I thought, I thought a cheap shot. . So anyway,  the NFL is trying hard to greatest game ever,  you know, let's, you know, let's keep it the greatest game and not have a. You know, cheap shots, get rid of that shit.

You know, I like, I play football the way  it was played in my era right now. It's played different.  It's still the greatest game going. I mean, remember last weekend? What a game. . What a game. Overtime. Is there a charity or a business or something that we could call attention to and have the listeners support today? 

Anything that's near and dear to your heart?  Well, the one I like is the Mercy Center. . In Asbury Park, New Jersey. . And the Mercy Center is  for women. It's all, well, they actually do a lot of things, but they also have a school and it's for  girls that are coming through real bad families. 

Father's gone. The mother's this, blah, blah, blah. Somehow or another they get, they put these girls in this school and I go, I give. money. I go to your every Christmas  and they're dressed beautiful. I mean, these kids got nothing  and everything, you know, that's my biggest charity is. The Mercy Center in Asbury Park, New Jersey.

They also have another, , sector of that, which is right on main street in Asbury Park and that that's for the homeless. So they do good for the homeless, you know, and,  but I like to school  Springwood Avenue, Asbury Park.  Go visit  any, any, anybody from New Jersey that might be listening. Go visit Mercy Center. 

I will do Asbury Park. I'm going to put this in the, in the show notes for the podcast and, and be sure that the listeners  go and check that out. Oh, cool. I have several friends. That would be very nice. Absolutely.  I appreciate you very much. Thank you, Greg. No, thank you, Phil, for speaking with me today and I, I appreciate you very much , for having such a great conversation with me and I, I truly enjoyed it.

I can't thank you enough for being my guest today. Well, you know, you were very organized and you asked the right questions. And, you know, I got to go to Chicago.  It's the 29th of February.  And  And I got to be, I'm a speaker at a breakfast, so they want me to talk for like 45 minutes.  And  you just by doing this, you got my brain working again.

I, you know, I used to do that all the time, but you know, you get, you know, your questions, I could,  I could use your questions in my mind to tell some stuff. Well, I'll tell you what I'll send you, my notes here for the podcast. And then that way if if you want to refer back to them, you can certainly do that too.

, that'd be cool right? Yes, sir. I've got you. I've got you Well, okay, that'd be great  Thank you. Greg. Have a great day. You too. Thank you phil Thank you. Okay. Bye bye now. Bye bye. Thank you, Phil.  

All right, everyone. Thank you again for listening to the Heroes and Icons podcast with your host, Greg Randolph. Once more, thank you to our guest, Phil Villapiano, and you can find the link , to the website , that we discussed, the Mercy Center. Asbury Park, New Jersey in the show notes for the podcast again Please follow the show on the X at heroes icons pod And if you  would be so kind as to rate share and subscribe wherever you might be listening, that would be very much appreciated Thank you again everyone for listening.

Have a great night and god bless