Heroes and Icons podcast

Ep.23. Mark Groubert. Host of America's Untold Stories on You Tube

Season 4 Episode 3

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Show Notes

summary
In this episode of the Heroes and Icons podcast, host Greg Randolph engages with Mark Groubert, a prominent figure in the exploration of the JFK assassination and American history. The conversation delves into Groubert's background, his work on America's Untold Stories, and his insights into the complexities surrounding the JFK assassination. They discuss the influence of various political figures, the role of misinformation, and the connections to organized crime. Groubert emphasizes the importance of critical research and understanding the narratives shaped by media and literature. The episode concludes with recommendations for further reading and viewing on the subject.

keywords
JFK assassination, conspiracy theories, American history, Mark Groubert, America's Untold Stories, LBJ, Oswald, organized crime, misinformation, historical research


America's Untold Stories with Eric Hunley and Mark Groubert |


https://americasuntoldstories.com/video/jfk-assassination-records-2025-whats-still-secret


https://americasuntoldstories.com/video/william-king-harvey-the-cias-most-dangerous-spy

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO8-jr_mxOYhcMfmr1RCy7Q


https://heroesandiconspodcast.com/

takeaways

  • Mark Groubert shares his early memories of the JFK assassination.
  • America's Untold Stories explores lesser-known aspects of American history.
  • Researching JFK requires careful consideration of sources and potential biases.
  • The role of Lee Harvey Oswald as a patsy is complex and multifaceted.
  • Connections between organized crime and the JFK assassination are significant.
  • LBJ's influence and potential involvement in the assassination are discussed.
  • The media's portrayal of the assassination has shaped public perception.
  • Conspiracy theories surrounding the assassination continue to evolve.
  • The importance of critical thinking in historical research is emphasized.
  • Grubert recommends various resources for further exploration of the JFK assassination.

titles

  • Unraveling the JFK Assassination
  • The Untold Stories of American History


Sound Bites

  • "You have to pick your sources."
  • "The autopsy was controlled by LBJ."
  • "Not everything you read is true."

Chapters

00:00
Introduction to the Podcast and Guest

02:33
Exploring America's Untold Stories

04:53
Mark's Personal Connection to JFK Assassination

07:19
Diving into JFK Assassination Literature

11:02
Evaluating Sources in JFK Research

14:46
The Role of Key Figures in the Assassination

19:07
Identifying Lee Harvey Oswald as a Patsy

23:23
The CIA's Involvement and Cover-ups

27:26
LBJ's Potential Role in the Assassination

32:01
Conspiracies and Theories Surrounding the Assassination

37:13
Researching Historical Figures and Events

39:59
The Complexities of LBJ's Character

43:05
The Chain of Command in the Assassination

45:52
The Role of Vietnam in Political Maneuvering

50:00
Hollywood's Portrayal of the JFK Assassination

52:47
The Involvement of Key Figures in the Assassination

56:40
Conspiracy Theories and Government Deception

01:00:02
The Importance of Document Transparency

01:01:50
Recommended Resources for JFK Research

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Greg Randolph (00:01.262)
Welcome and thank you for joining us today on the Heroes and Icons podcast. I'm your host, Greg Randolph. Please find me on the X at Greg Heroes Icons. I'm also a featured podcaster on HoustonCityBeat.com. That's a cool website for happenings in local businesses in the Houston area. Please check them out. And would you do me a favor? If you're enjoying the show, please share it with a friend or two and thank you in advance for doing that. We have a very special guest today. If you're an American history buff and for our purposes again this evening,

a fan or student of the JFK assassination, you will greatly appreciate my next guest. He is a web host for America's Untold Stories.

which is a...

Greg Randolph (00:45.646)
on YouTube with his producer Eric Hunley. If you're not familiar with America's Untold Stories, it's a YouTube channel that explores history and pop culture that is often unknown, obscure, or overlooked, and I highly recommend it. He's also an investigative reporter and features writer for the LA Weekly and was editor of the Weekly World News in 2002. He's also written for Penthouse Magazine, High Times, LA City Beat, and many other publications.

From 1994 to 2001, he wrote more than 10 screenplays, including The Recruit in 2003 with Al Pacino, Bridget Monahan, and Colin Farrell, and he served as a script doctor on dozens of others. My guest today is Mark Grubert. It's a tremendous honor to have you on the show with me. How you doing, Mark? Pretty good, pretty good, Greg. Good. Hey, so take me back here just a little bit. If I have this right, you grew up in Brooklyn, is that correct? Yeah.

Okay, so. That correct. So are you, so, but you're a Dodgers fan also from what I can gather, right? Right, I'm a Dodgers fan, that is correct. And the reason is another guy who grew up in Brooklyn a little bit before me was my hero and that was a guy named Sandy Koufax. wow, okay. Interesting. So when they went west, he went west with them and became

the Hall of Fame pitcher that we now know to be Sandy Koufax. That's a pretty good choice. That's a pretty good choice. had the Astros had Bob Aspromonte who played with, played in the infield with Jackie Robinson. Yeah, I remember Aspromonte. He was a good ball player. He was a good ball player. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Well, tell me, Mark, tell us about America's untold stories and what are you guys currently working on?

well, on Tuesdays and Fridays, we do current events. the end of the month, we do a, a JFK episode. we try to keep as many, JFK episodes in the hopper as possible, but we are, we've done stories on all parts of American culture, the assassination of Garfield, you know, unusual stories, personal stories.

Greg Randolph (03:10.158)
it's like an untold American history in a lot of ways. we've done a lot on the Kennedy assassination, but that is not our total focus. Sure. No, absolutely. And you've there's, I think you guys did one today on, on OJ Simpson. Is that right? Eric might've done one on his other channel. I'm not really sure about that. I'm not really sure about that. We have separate channels also.

eric and i did two different subject matters i've got a new one called what's up with lord buckley where i do deep dives on hollywood show business personalities and comedy and acting i just did a deep dive for two hours on the comedian andy kalfman i did george carl and a couple weeks ago so you know because i'm in show business in that area i live in hollywood california so

It's of interest to a lot of people who follow me this other channel the new one. What's up with Lord Buckley on YouTube? No, I absolutely and you're you're such a great researcher and I have to really give you a lot of credit for everything that you That you do and that you bring to these episodes. It's really just it's really well done Very well done. Well a lot of them were originally to be honest with you. They were originally planned to be movies

that didn't come to fruition. So many of the stories were already researched by myself in attempts to make them into films over a period of 25 years of being out here in Hollywood. So it was not that difficult because I already had done a lot of the research on many of these stories. Okay. Well, that, mean, that certainly makes a lot of sense. So, so let me ask you, Mark, how

How old were you at the time of the JFK assassination? And when did your interest in the subject begin? PS 194 on NAP Street in Brooklyn, New York. We're playing punchball outside on a school recess. And a guy was sitting there with a transistor radio who told us that the president had been killed and we were all sent home from school. At that time.

Greg Randolph (05:31.731)
And I lived across the street from the school, so it wasn't that long of a walk for me. And I went home and it was a Friday, as people now know. And I watched the weekend unfold with my parents until Sunday when Ruby killed Oswald on live TV. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's, I mean, you had a front row seat for...

I it as a kid. Yeah, I also remember, you know, a year before that, two years before that, Cuban Missile Crisis, where everyone in New York had their bags packed, headed out of town because the missiles were targeted to New York and DC. And we were fleeing in October back to the Catskills where we had a bungalow to escape what we thought was going to be a thermonuclear attack on the city of New York.

Wow, that's amazing. That's amazing. then I never saw my parents as white faced and scared and mum as that weekend that week, the 12 days, 13 days than any other time in my life. Well, I'm sure they were pretty terrified. The whole city was terrified. Gosh, that's just crazy. But we somehow.

Somehow we made it through, thank God. Well, me get, I guess there's really not a good place to start with the JFK assassination just because it's just such a deep and murky ocean of bad actors and everything else. But I'm currently reading The Devil's Chest Board by David Talbot. of course, discusses, you know,

Alan Dulles and his brother, along with Harriman and Rockefeller and Ford and Prescott Bush, who were all a part of the Bank of International Settlements. And that was really pretty mind-blowing to me that American companies financed, according to this and another thing I saw, that American companies financed Germany with the tanks and the Autobahn and communications.

Greg Randolph (08:00.75)
So they were making money on both sides.

I mean, it's an ally up until, you know, Churchill, up until the time that FDR declares war on it. mean, the Hollywood studios were doing business with them, making films and cutting Jews and Jewish names out of the credits, So they weren't alone in doing that. know, keep in mind, one thing you should keep in mind when you read these books, this is including Dave Talbot, these people are

it's and i don't mean this to be derogatory but they are extremely far left democrats who are writing these book these books no one is further left on the political spectrum than david talbot he was the editor of salon of the san francisco chronicle of periodicals mother jones

I don't know if you're aware of how far left Mother Jones is, Greg. They come from a perspective that may not be exactly the same as the rest of the American people, and it influences their writing. So a lot of it you have to take with a grain of salt. OK, well, that's good to know. And you know, it's it's funny. I had I had Jeff Morley on my podcast last August and and he was mentioning he mentioned maybe not to me, but

He mentioned that he was surprised that he had a, I guess almost a two or twice as many two to one, whatever, number of conservatives, Republicans that were interested in the topic as opposed to Democrats. I found that pretty interesting. I know I've heard them say that before. Now keep in mind Morley is coming from an extremely far left position. Yes. He only wrote about African-American suffering for the Washington Post when he was there.

Greg Randolph (09:56.813)
This was a mainstream and is a mainstream Washington Post alumni. So you have to take, has no, there's no information on who his family is. There's no information on who his parents were. There's a lot of stuff that you don't know and I don't know about many of these writers, Greg. And you have to put that into your calculations when you're reading what they're writing.

and not just jump on board as if every investigation is truthful and the same. There's a lot of misinformation in the JFK genre and the zeitgeist surrounding the research community. And obviously so, intentionally so. If you're the central intelligence agency or whoever, do you want to allow yourselves to be fingered?

in the assassination of an American president or do you want to push back and possibly detract and provide disinformation to get people off your back? It would be a natural institutional reaction even if you weren't involved. I agree. I agree. So how would you how would you advise people to to I mean you you mentioned

you know, just that a lot of these guys are on the left or far left. Yeah. But how else how else would you advise someone who's who's going to start researching or or is researching about about what to identify and and and take to the bank or as gospel as you know, as as being truthful with everything. You have to take your sources. I mean, you really have to be savvy as to

Pick your sources. I'll give you an example. Here's an example. Maybe you can understand this one. This guy, Buell Wesley Frazier, picks up Oswald and he's in his driveway. Obviously Oswald comes over and the day of gets into the back of his car with a package, possibly the length of a rifle wrapped in paper, which he says Oswald told him was curtain rods. Okay. this is backed up.

Greg Randolph (12:14.83)
his sister Lenny May Randall who lived in the house and you go well that's kind of that's kind of I am proof to people backing that up but what people don't understand is that what you Wesley Frazier was arrested and lie detected twice and threatened with the electric chair in Texas if he didn't cooperate with Gus Rose from the Sheriff's Department of Dallas

Now, who is Gus Rose? Well, he's a guy who was featured in Errol Morris's film, The Thin Blue Line, in 1980 for framing another innocent man. And that film won an Academy Award as a documentary about this same guy. So you have to take your sources. When Rose takes him down for the interrogation and the two lie detector tests, that's when they flip Frazier. And Frazier is flipped because

They need a guy to put that rifle into that car to get it to the Texas school book depository. However, however, and this is the point of this little miniature story, there are two 302s by the FBI and the FBI agents doing these 302s didn't have a dogging on. The first one was of Linnie Mae Randall and Frazier's mother.

who was making breakfast, looking out the kitchen window that morning when Oswald got into that car. And she told the FBI, and it's in the 302s, that he had nothing in his hands but a small sandwich bag with a lunch sandwich in it, as Oswald indicated to the FBI himself. He put that into his own coat pocket, like a six by six sandwich, Greg, that you would take in a brown paper bag. Now you say, well, that's only one person, Mark.

Well, there's a corresponding 302 by the dock foreman who opened up the loading dock at the Texas School Book Depository who told that FBI agent that Oswald had nothing in his hands when he came to work that morning. Both of these countermand the bullshit story by Frazier and his sister, who I don't begrudge from making it because he was being threatened with the electric chair. Now to answer that...

Greg Randolph (14:31.476)
Where would he get this idea of having curtain rods as a package in the car? Well, it turns out that his last summer job was at the leading department store in Dallas in the shipping department, specifically shipping out curtain rods, Greg. I mean, there's there's really nothing. I guess that surprises me too much anymore. Have have you run across just any?

any particular subject or bad actor or piece of evidence that's really surprised you?

Yeah, a million over the years. Yeah, tons of stuff. Okay. Tons of stuff. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it would take me a whole day to explain the different pieces of that puzzle. But yeah, quite a bit. Okay. Okay. mean, take the Cabana Motel, where, you know, you had mentioned Jim Braden. Jim Braden goes back to room 301, where he was staying at the Cabana Motel, and his partner, Morgan Brown,

It already fled. This is after Braden clears himself extricating himself from Dallas police with his phony driver's license after being picked up coming down the elevator the Dow tax building You know crossing daily in Daily Plaza now Morgan Brown is the partner of Jim Braden aka You know Braden had 17 different names so you could pick the one you want for Braden Braden had on the rest record

I think about 30 different arrests. Eugene Hale-Bradin was probably the most common pseudonym or nondiploma for him. think that might have been his legal name. But anyway, Jim Braden had visited with Lamar Hunt, not H.L. Hunt, Lamar Hunt the day before, and Jack Ruby had been in that building. And it was Lamar Hunt and his brother who had paid for the ads in the Dallas newspapers denouncing Kennedy.

Greg Randolph (16:36.258)
The father, H.L. Hunt, which nobody seems to care, leaves the city of Dallas for two months with General Walker and flees to his Hacienda lair in Mexico with Walker in the morning after the shooting, Greg. Waze, I heard that H.L. Hunt was actually the one that let Braiding into the Daltex building. No, no way.

No way, that building was wide open. That building was wide open. There is a room up there, which was a washroom, which leads out onto that fire escape. And there's an industrial elevator, which actually had an elevator operator, who was the one who signaled the police about Braden when he came down. They also arrested a guy named Larry Rohrer, who would care to be drunk and also looking for a phone. But...

Brayden had a phony driver's license and had his parole officer back in LA and it told him he was going to Dallas for an oil business, which may have been true. He was involved in a lot of phony oil deals as a con man and hustler. Well, and then he also got a an elite membership to the Cal Neva Club, right?

Yeah, I mean, he was a minor mobster. He was really a courier, Greg. mean, a lot of people, he was also caught stealing, breaking into someone's locker there and stealing money out of their locker. he also made one of his scams was to ingratiate himself with wealthy widows and then marry them and then dump them and get out of town. So he was also a con man who was into a lot of different cons.

I remember you saying that in the episode on America's Untold Stories. that's right. We did an episode on him. Yeah, I forgot about that. The other thing about him is, mean, son of a bitch, what another coincidence. He just happens to be a block away on the same night as the RFK. mean, lives on Gohaney and the Ambassador Hotel was not a block away, but he was in LA that night.

Greg Randolph (18:54.932)
Okay, okay. thought it was it was questioned by police and he had quote unquote an alibi. But I mean, his base of operations was Beverly Hills. So not not too crazy that he was in Beverly Hills that night. I guess that I guess that makes sense with everything with everything going on. gosh, let me see what what we have here next. So how in

How and when do you think Lee Harvey Oswald was marked as the Patsy? I mean, was it when Ruth Payne made the trip down south to New Orleans? Well, I think there were a number of Patsies. know, obviously there was the Chicago Patsy. There was one in Miami. was one in Tampa. I think there were people floating around as Patsies. And I'll tell you, another one was Wesley Buell Frazier, who they took his 303 British Enfield out of his house.

with a ton of ammo and he was a frequent visitor to the local shooting range and I think he would have been a Patsy and I think he knew that Frazier. I think he was a backup Patsy to Oswald in the building itself and they find this British Enfield, this 303 on the rooftop of the Dallas, of the Texas School Book Depository, Greg, and they bring it down the fire escape.

The cops huddle up. There's photographs of them. There's film footage of them bringing down the rifle from the roof. So it depends what you think is a patsy and when and when I mean, is it is he a patsy because he survives the Texas theater arrest? Was he supposed to be killed there? You know what mean? And then what kind of patsy do you have then? Well, and there and there's so many connections to this. So I mean.

He's connected to David Ferry. He's connected to Carlos Marcello. He worked for him. His mom worked for Marcello. Well, that's not correct. That's not correct. His uncle, Dutch Muret, who was a retired boxer at that point, became a guy who collected money for him, which other people did as well. In fact, Oswald became briefly a runner for his uncle, Dutch Muret.

Greg Randolph (21:19.726)
the urette family completely spooked up in terms of people who are working in the intelligence community. I Dorothy Murette is traveling the entire world on a teacher's salary, running into all kinds of people all around the world. The CIA used the cover of Teacher quite a bit with women, and the Murette family, Charles Murette ends up, this is who was at...

spring hill college in mobile alabama that you're at the the the first and so after the bosnian war being put in charge of the entire legal structure of the nation of bosnia the entire family is spooked up greg it's not just oswald being a patsy if you follow the stories on the channel you'll see how much information is there regarding

The CIA and I say the CIA I generically because Oswald was was not CIA. He was ONI and He was ONI until the day he was shot. In fact that last call that he made to the nags head, North Carolina Was a call to his ONI handler who later denied it. Regardless of that, regardless of that the phony defector program that James Angleton created took from multiple areas

of the military. were 13 phony defectors and they were all placed in various countries in Eastern Europe behind the Iron Curtain. One of them got Bulgaria, one of them got Romania. Oswald was given the Soviet Union and went to Moscow and eventually shipped over to Minsk where he took photographs of their military equipment that was on his Minox camera when it came out of Ruth Payne's garage,

Yeah, I mean, there's so many different angles to that for sure. So, and when you say ONI, that's Office of Naval Intelligence? Office of Naval Intelligence, who famously said on the eve of their testimony before the House Assassinations Committee in 1979, they came to the hearings and famously said, we destroyed all our

Greg Randolph (23:39.887)
that we had on Lee Harvey Oswald the day before the hearings. Thank you very much. Yeah, yeah, that those those hearings and committee sessions were were pretty crazy because you had you had people that that might have that might have have talked but but who were who were whacked for lack of a better term yet. I mean you had

You David Ferry and Eugenio Del Valle, who was under traffic Conte in Miami, who were both taken out at about the same time. You had Charles Nicoletti from the Chicago outfit under Giancana. And then you had Johnny Rosselli, who was also killed about that same time. think the A.J.'s were numbered anyway. You know, regardless, they had been involved.

in in which would jack ruby and gun running to to cuba and they were i think that they were so vulnerable as to the amount of information they had regarding zr rifle under william harvey and also the assassination attempts on gastro that they were marked men regardless i i i don't think they're involved in the assassination of kennedy but they were up to their

up to their ears in Bay of Pigs and Castro Operation Mongoose stuff. And a lot of people conflate the two and they're not conflatable. These are two separate parts of American history. The Bay of Pigs operation, the Operation Mongoose, the ZR rifle and the assassination of Kennedy are things that people who are not really students of this genre conflate.

and there's separate parts of American history. Do they overlap at times? Of course. Of course. Right. But that's intentional. The fact that they're laying breadcrumbs when Oswald is supposed to be in Mexico City, so it looks like he's trying to get back to Havana and then to Moscow was intentionally laid by David Atlee Phillips, the head of the Western Hemisphere of the CIA. We know that now because they had him down there September 28th.

Greg Randolph (25:55.087)
two months before the assassination, laying these breadcrumbs that this guy is trying to get a visa and Hoover listens to the tapes and says that's not Oswald and the photograph is not Oswald. So why would they fake these phony phone calls? Why would they fake these phony photos in September 28th of 1963 unless they were setting this guy up and more importantly,

The setup was to promote the invasion of the island of Cuba in a Bay of Pigs II with the Joint Chiefs of Staff. They just wanted to go straight into the Soviet heartland with Curtis LeMay and nuclear weapons because they felt that we had the right to do this. Yeah. Yeah. Those I think they were along with, you know, Texas oil and, you know, probably LBJ and

everyone else, Marcelo, whomever, that they were... The book you have to read is Philip K. Nelson's book, know, LBJ Mastermind of the Assassination. Nelson and others, including Robert Caro, lays out to the doorstep that LBJ was the man who was in charge of this thing. And I don't mean the physical planning, the nuts and bolts of this. As you're well aware, if you're from Texas, LBJ was running a crime family down there.

Yeah, with various, various people like, like Mac Wallace and others. Yes. Who people from Texas, when this event happened, they were the first ones to tell me it was LBJ because they knew him better than anybody, Greg. Right. Right. And there was, hold on, let me, me find this here. So there was a, so in the Devil's chessboard, he's quoted, LBJ is quoted as saying to Claire Booth,

when asked about why he settled for the number two spot on the 1960 campaign ticket, quote, one out of every four presidents has died in office. I'm a gambling man, darlin', unquote. And if you ask me, it sounds like he's already kind of rigged the blackjack table. yeah, I mean, he did that. By the way, he did that at the hotel here in LA. The night that he was asked to be on the vice presidential ticket as a vice president, he had his guy,

Greg Randolph (28:15.02)
go check the history of this. That's where that quote comes from. The statement to Claire Booth Lewis is during the inauguration that you're quoting in a limousine. But he had already sent out one of his henchmen. I forget if it was Bill, what's his face or another one, but he had sent one of his guys down to look it up in the library. And he came back with those numbers and he said, I like those odds.

and and he said what are you getting at boss they didn't know what he was getting at but the fact of the matter was he wasn't a gambling man the fact of the matter was he was able to control this thing in the in the summer of nineteen sixty three with him and john connelly in the el cortez hotel forcing jfk to admit that he would come back in november in the fall for a tour of texas

and they pressured the shit out of him, Greg, until he finally said, all right, have it your way. And that was part of what they had to pull off individually as part of the plot. A lot of people say, well, he was just involved in the cover-up. Bullshit. This guy was in for a penny, in for a pound. That cover of Life magazine, November 22nd, was going to be in...

going to prison and being dropped from the ticket because of the scandals that he was having with his little Lyndon partner there, the senatorial aide. That cover was canceled and replaced by the Kennedy assassination. But all of the stuff that Life magazine was getting from month after month after month on LBJ's dirty tactics, and that included taking money from Fred Korth.

through general dynamics fifty thousand dollars in a bag every single time cash money all of that stuff was being leaked to life magazine by a guy named robert francis kennedy the attorney general of the united states that's why lbj was going down and he knew it he knew he was going down

Greg Randolph (30:31.052)
that train had to end and it would have ended if Daley Plaza was unsuccessful and John Connolly had not gone to war, gone to war with Bruno the advanced man to change the speech to be at the... At the trademark. At the trademark instead of the women's building. He went to war over this making a phone calls.

altering Secret Service reports. Why would John Connolly give a shit where that speech was? Because it altered the route on which they were going to travel. So the trademark was indefensible. The trademark may have been a backup location for an assassination. The woman's building, you would drive right into it with limousines. The doors open wide up. The trademark had catwalks all through the roof of that. As you're well aware,

and was indefensible according to the Secret Service. Yet John Connolly, who yells out, they are gonna kill us all. The biggest argument LBJ ever had was in that Texas hotel in Fort Worth the night before the assassination with John Connolly, yelling between him, LBJ, and JFK, arguing that John Connolly should not be sitting in that front seat of the limo. And he wanted Ralph Yarborough sitting there.

as you may be well aware at this time. Now, how do we know this? Because JFK's wife, Jackie Kennedy, said it was the loudest argument she ever heard her husband have with anybody. Wow. Why would this guy be arguing about a seat for John Connolly in that death mobile? But for that very reason. Yeah. But he forced his way onto that ticket.

Right, but or he was not exactly not exactly there's more to it than that because two FBI agents showed up in JFK suite here in LA the weekend of the weekend of the you know the Democratic primary and They showed him pictures of the girls he was engaged with that's right. Gene Connors girlfriend the photos made LB made LBJ a member that ticket

Greg Randolph (32:51.374)
And that came from J. Edgar Hoover, his best friend who lived across the street from him for 22 years. Yeah, yes. He put onto that ticket with the help of his best friend J. Edgar Hoover, for Christ sakes. Yeah, yeah, that's what a crazy deal. The other thing that I heard was that was that Marcello was making regular payoffs to LBJ.

I'd seen that too. I don't know anything about that. mean people were making payoffs LBJ all through, know, usually the Campese brothers were running Dallas and they were the first ones to visit Jack Ruby when he was in jail. mean the Campese brothers are the ones that funneled a $50,000 fee for the hit of Oswald to Ruby.

That's to be expected. can't expect intelligence officers to all of a sudden be shuffling around money to these guys. That was a mob rub out. I mean, it's as simple as that. And Ruby didn't want to do it. He kept trying to get out of it all weekend, but he'd already taken the money. Oh, OK. I thought it was a I thought it was more of a of a deal where where he was given the hit and then he didn't he didn't do it the night before. So he had to do it on on live TV right there.

Greg Randolph (34:40.392)
of three hundred and sixty five thousand dollars today by the way today's money not a small amount of money to do what he did he called up on friday he obviously was stalking him on friday he stalking him on saturday he called up and at one point this kid who was manning the desk overnight at the dallas police station said is this jack ruby and he hung up he got cold feet friday night got cold feet saturday night

And on Sunday, by Monday, they were going to have to move him to a unlimited time press conference, Greg. And that's why Sunday night had to be the end of Lee Harvey Oswald, because on Monday, Captain Fritz had already told the press they would have free access to Lee Harvey Oswald Monday morning after he'd been moved. They would have a full on presser, and that could not be allowed to happen. I think it was up to Jack's discretion as to when.

to take care of this project, but he couldn't not take care of it. He'd already, you know, taking the money from them. Right, right. And, you know, and speaking of of payouts and everything, my my understanding is that is that each of the gunmen received 50,000 each. So so it could not be. Where would you get that? Where would you get that? Where would you get that? Gosh, you know, there's there's a documentary.

on. How do know who got what about anything? mean, that's a crazy statement. Not you, but it's a crazy statement for anyone to make. Yeah, there's a there's a guy that they did about a three and a half hour documentary and I'll email it to you. But his name is Francis Connolly and it's called Never heard of him. And it's called From JFK to 9-11. Everything is a rich man's trick.

Look, that's a British propaganda documentary. Please take what you need out of there and leave the rest. There's so much misinformation in that thing. Everybody always mentions that. Be careful when foreign people try to do the history of your nation, Remember that. And that includes the men who killed Kennedy with Nigel Turner, you who puts Judith Barry Baker on the map.

Greg Randolph (37:02.144)
a complete fraud who began writing a novel in Amsterdam and then her publisher said, you know, this might be better as a nonfiction book. You know, I once asked Judy Barry Baker when she resigned from the CIA and that was the last conversation I had with her. If she admits that she was hired by the CIA when she was a chemist, brainiac in school, and that's fine. So I said, when did you resign and do you have any documentation?

She didn't want to hear that that was the end of the interview. Come on. Come on. There's so many frauds out there. You really got to be careful about tracing. What I do every time I do any of these shows, I need multiple sources. So I read the memoirs of these various people who either worked for LBJ or worked for JFK. And then you cross reference it to give you an idea.

on how to do research, you find the index, you find the memoirs of these people, and then if two of them agree on something, then you've got a leg to stand on. But one person in England saying somebody got 50 grand, it's just, know, there's no backing to it. If you look at, you know, if you look at Bill Moyers, for instance, Bill Moyers.

At one point is the chief of staff for LBJ. He later goes on to, you know, to PBS, right? And then you look at what's her name? The woman who wrote the biography of LBJ. Recently, she's been doing other biographies, but the one that was the most famous one she did.

Doris Kearns Goodwin, her husband Richard Goodwin was a speechwriter for JFK and he stayed on board in the transition for LBJ. The two of them said, why don't we go to separate psychiatrists here in DC, don't tell them who our boss is and describe his characteristics to the top psychiatrists, two different ones in DC and come back and compare notes.

Greg Randolph (39:24.43)
So Moyers goes out, and this is in both their memoirs. This is the reason I'm telling you this. They both came back, compared notes, and the psychiatrist said your employer is a alcoholic, bipolar, sex addicted, megalomaniacal, uncontrollable liar who has fits of mania and fits of depression. And they looked at each other and said, that's LBJ.

and they said we gotta get out of here so goodwin goes to him resigns he gets a visit to the flight i think you know overlink college or one of the small colleges and lbj calls him in his office and said here's your papers boy because what says he says you're going to saigon because what he says nobody quits me and he almost breaks down crying he was going to send him to vietnam the next day and he rescinds this this acceptance of his offer as a professor

and stays on with LBJ. This madman, as he has seen him, you know, I mean, he's drinking two quarts of Cuddy Sark a day, taking out his penis and waving it around, calling it jumbo in the, the, in the senatorial restrooms. I mean, people have no idea who this guy was. This is one of the greatest cover-ups of all time.

The fact that nobody will touch this guy. I've argued with Oliver Stone over this for 25 years. He's finally coming around that this guy not only was going to go to jail, but needed to be involved in this thing to save his own life. Yeah. And you know what? Let me ask you, let me ask you this. Like as far as the, is the flow chart or power chart did, have you seen the, and this is from E Howard Hunt. So

So I don't know how, how truthful this, this is, but he had allegedly drawn out as a kind of a chain of command for the assassination with, so he had LBJ at the top, Cordmire, David Atlee Phillips, David Morales and a French assassin. Has that been debunked? you the actual list because if I recall correctly, it was LBJ, Richard Helms, Cordmire, David Atlee Phillips, Bill Harvey, David Morales and Cuban shooters.

Greg Randolph (41:47.823)
Possibly French but it was some mystery as to the shooters But the real list had court Meyer on there, which I never agreed with but the rest of it I do the rest of it. I kind of do agree with Yeah So many Cuban shooters around at that point that you know, look at general Walker's men Look at the crowd that Walker has surrounded him with I surrounded him these were

ran the marksmanship unit outside of Berlin. That's what his unit was known for. They won the European trophy every single year that General Walker was in Europe. He was in the sharp shooting contest every single year with his men,

I guess that makes a lot of sense. let me ask you this. I apologize for jumping around, but there's so many thousands of different things here. So what do you make of the recent revelation that Bill Harvey of the CIA did, in fact, have a few aliases that he used for covert travel with the FAA as William Walker and all that?

I don't, to be honest with I don't make anything of it. I presume that he had that. I've always presumed that. It would be absurd not to. The fact that they don't want to finger the FAA for providing him an alias to fly under, if they didn't do it, I would be embarrassed. You know what mean? It just seems like that goes with the territory. Right, just hand in hand? Yeah! I mean, I don't see that as a revelation to me.

I mean, I did an episode on William Harvey, your audience may want to take a look at. Harvey was sent to Rome before that, they're trying to get him, the people who believe that Harvey was involved. And I don't know how much or if Harvey was involved at all. But this idea that you have to be in Dallas to be involved in the assassination is juvenile.

Greg Randolph (43:59.727)
Why do you have to be in the city where it's happening? That would be the last place I would want to be. Yeah. know, these photos of George Bush senior, the, the, the, of these different, uh, Edward Lansdale photos, the three tramps, it's all been debunked. It's all been debunked. mean, the three tramps have been debunked. Uh, they actually were tramps as hard as, as hard as that is to believe.

You know, Lansdale was not there, I doubt that William Harvey was there because he's got an alibi of being at home. But let me ask you this. Why would you want to be there if you were involved in this thing? Just use common logic. That would be the last place I'd want to be. Well, and you know, the higher up that that I think anyone was in the in any of these organizations, to your point, the further away they were physically and had insulated themselves from from being associated with it.

Now, there's a man named LBJ who takes two months off of his duty in August and September to stay at his ranch in Dallas, in Austin, and who visits him? A guy named Dulles. Alan Dulles comes and visits him at the ranch. Now that's as all hell. It certainly is. I'd like to know more about that one.

Of course you would. Why is he for two months outside of Washington? This is the vice president. Imagine if JD Vance wasn't in Washington for two months. He was just in Appalachia somewhere or wherever he lives. People would just go, what the hell is he doing here for two months? So let me ask another question since you brought up LBJ's ranch. So why is, as the vice president stamped from his library, why...

November 21st, 1963, why is it stamped that day for a National Security Action Memorandum to escalate the number of troops going to Vietnam? That was a quick trope. mean, okay. What they wanted was an invasion of Cuba or, more importantly to them, a preemptive strike on the Soviet Union. That's what the Joint Chiefs believed, militarily. I can't begrudge them. I wasn't there. I don't know the intelligence.

Greg Randolph (46:20.566)
They believed that the Soviet missile strength was rising on a monthly basis. it would be unfair for them as military experts to not put these proposals forward. Many on the left have besmirched this as warmongering. However, from their point of view, militarily, they felt if you're ever going to strike the Soviet Union now is the time to do it. And they kept giving these proposals to JFK.

who, you know, was appalled by this, but nevertheless, that's the time period they were in and we were in at that time. The situation with LBJ was he did not want to attack the Soviet Union. He did not want an invasion of Cuba. Why? Because he's already achieved what he wanted. Ultimate power as the president of the United States. The quid pro quo was to give them Vietnam.

which is what he does in National Security Action Memo 273, taking back 263, which was signed by JFK a couple of before. Now that being said, all of his friends make a fortune off of this. Bell Helicopter, Brown and Root. So it's not without benefit to him and his friends to go into Vietnam. But Vietnam was a quid pro quo. And in a way, he screwed up.

the generals by doing this because it was a booby prize. There was a way for him to appease them and he kind of screwed them over by doing that. They wanted a full scale invasion of the island of Cuba. They wanted to blame Castro and they also wanted to go into the Soviet Union. Gosh, that's pretty powerful stuff. Excuse me. let me.

Let me ask you this as far as theories go. Are you familiar with an article or an interview that Godfather actor Giovanni Russo made that Johnny Rosselli was not only involved in the JFK assassination, that he made the kill shot from the sewer drain? Completely absurd. OK.

Greg Randolph (48:37.422)
Because I've seen and I have actually have I this. My friend Robert Groton went down into the sewer drain. Yeah, actually I literally photographs of what you would say. Talk to Bob Groton. He'll explain it. It's an insanity about the sewer drain. You see the tires of a car. I literally I literally looked at that picture at those pictures like two hours ago because I am am fortunate enough. I am very fortunate enough to have.

JFK absolute proof which is amazing. All three of them are really great. All three of the coffee table books. are the other two coffee table books? By him. He has three different books. The first two are collector's items. The killing of the president and a serf.

Harvey Oswald are the two masterpieces that he put out initially and the third one is the one you have. And then his wife is an expert on the Tippett murder, is that correct? I don't know if she's an expert on anything, but there's a guy named Matt Dufit who has mastered and is the leading expert on the Tippett murder down there. Matt is the main guy. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I don't know what his wife knows about it, but Matt is the main guy. I gotcha.

I got you. Well, let me. There are people who just focus on individual things and they're far more expert on these things than I am. I'm kind of just a guy who's into a lot of different areas. But people in the J. F. K. Research community tend to focus on one area and just become an expert in that area and tip of the hat to them. Absolutely. And you have the guy with I can't recall his name, but he's he does all the work on on the Secret Service.

Vince Calamari, yeah. He is the number one guy on the Secret Service. I mean, this guy knows everything about the Secret Everything I've learned, I've learned from these people. I stand on their shoulders. I gotcha. I gotcha. Let me ask you this, and I know you would know this, but so regarding movies and scripts, how close to the truth about the JFK assassination are movies like Executive Action and JFK among others?

Greg Randolph (51:03.724)
Well, executive action, that's a long story, but executive action was originally written by Mark Lane and then Dalton Trumbo got involved and just from a movie point of view it became kind of messy. You know, it's got Burt Lancaster in it and it's got some interesting takes on things, know, the bare nuts physics of it, you know, looks presentable. Groton was a consultant on that film as well and we will be doing a panel.

on this in Dallas, November 22nd at the Lancer Conference, Bob and I, about political assassination in Hollywood films. So we're taking all of the Hollywood films and we're looking at them through a lens of political assassination for our presentation at the conference. JFK, the Oliver Stone movie, presents numerous theories. So he, his film and Oliver

admits this, he's trying to show you a collage of different theories in the course of his film. while executive action focuses on one single scenario, Oliver focuses on multiple scenarios. It's I thought it struck me as as very interesting at the least that at the very outset in the in the opening scene, movie credits, whatever, on executive action that

the producers are very, very quick to cover their ass and say, and say, we're not, and it's, paraphrasing here a bit, I think, but it's something like, we're not suggesting that there was a conspiracy to kill the president. However, if there was, this is what it might've looked like. And that usually comes from lawyers. I mean, if you look at what Oliver did with Ruth Bain and changed your name to Williams because the Warner Brothers lawyers,

have to bet the entire script and they were worried about her suing him being litigious as a CIA operative. He later told me that he regretted doing it and that he wished that he had kept her name in so she would have sued him to get documentation through the discovery process. I had forgotten about that.

Greg Randolph (53:28.738)
Well, Mark, this has been an incredible conversation. me ask you just a couple more things if I can, and then we'll land the plane, so to speak. Speaking of planes, let me segue to a couple of these pilots here, namely Tosh Plumley and David Ferry. What were their roles in the actual getaway and delivery of alleged assassins to Dallas?

I don't know anything about that. I Ferry, Plumlee I think is a fraud, but Ferry was actually funneling, Ferry worked as a private investigator for Marcello. He was actually at Marcello's trial. And he, as a pilot, when the embargo of Cuba happened, and we couldn't get rare minerals out of Cuba, he actually piloted Clay Shaw up to Canada.

to procure rare minerals, especially nickel, I believe, that we were getting from Cuba that was embargoed by the Cuban embargo. So, besides all the things that Ferry did as a propagandist and as a guy who was trying to overthrow Castro, he also worked as a pilot for Clay Shaw and would fly him around doing things like I just described.

OK, that makes sense. That makes sense. I mean, he's running the Civil Air Patrol out of New Orleans and he's teaching Oswald and his kids how to fly these these T-33 trainers. And he's also trying to molest them at the same time because he's a pedophile. Right. So, I mean, you've got to look at very, you know, through different lenses at different times. Yeah, that's true. I mean, it seems like he had a lot of different roles.

in the I don't ask the point. A lot of these people had multiple roles. He I'll just give you an example. David Ferry had borrowed his way into the customs house in New Orleans. It was kind of like the Lufthansa heist out of JFK and he would report to Marcello what shipments everything that came into the port had to go through the U.S. Customs House and he would look at the bills of laden waiting and tell Marcello

Greg Randolph (55:55.785)
what valuable stuff is coming into the Customs House and then they would steal it. Well, Oswald got assigned a job to see what the hell was going on at the Customs House. And he went in and realized and found out that this was being done by David Ferry. And he got Ferry arrested for doing this and Ferry lost his job at the Customs House because of Oswald. So, so do you think Ferry had had any influence then if that if that happened to him from Oswald?

for setting him up as the Patsy? I gotcha. very welcome to be. mean, motivation, emotional motivation means nothing with these people. No, it means nothing. These are just assignments. There's no, you know, I'm angry at this guy for this or that. These people are doing stuff, you know, for assignments. You know, when Oswald comes back from Minsk, he goes to Rotterdam where he's got his diary taped to his chest.

and stomach to get out of the Soviet Union. he's debriefed in Rotterdam by a woman, actually. And in that debriefing is all the information from his diary on the physics of how Minsk works, how the phones work, how the buses work, how you buy stuff in supermarkets. Because we didn't have Telstar. We didn't have satellite images. You had to physically get on the ground and find out how things work. And we called it human intelligence.

That's what Oswald was doing in Minsk. If you read his diary, he's giving the intelligence bosses the physics of how Minsk works as a city. That's what his agent job was at that time. But he later had other jobs when he got back here. Yep. And he was he was surveilled by Angleton, James Jesus Angleton, with the mail and letters.

letters home to his mother. Right, they all were. They all were. It wasn't just him. I mean, keep in mind, he's got a Soviet, you know, a Soviet intelligence wife that he brought back and he's got, they're opening up her stuff and he catches her sending. She was sending back like science magazines and stuff that they couldn't get in the Soviet Union. She would be mailing them straight back, you know, to Minsk, which is part of her gathering of human intelligence.

Greg Randolph (58:19.448)
People think like spies are breaking into these places. At that time, you needed people on the ground for human intelligence. And her job, Marina, was to mail things back to her uncle who was running the FBI of Minsk. And that of Minsk. And he caught her doing this a number of times and smacked her around. Gosh. That's pretty crazy. That's pretty crazy. So lastly, as it pertains to

I guess conspiracy theories. the government has not been truthful with us on this, how much of a stretch really is it to just kind of maybe throw in the towel a little bit and say, okay, well, they've just, they've lied to us about everything. You know, about the... Well, I mean, look at the series I did on Watergate. I mean, you'll begin to understand how Ted Kennedy orchestrated this Watergate cover-up.

uh... and nothing to do with the cock and bull story we were told by woodward and bernstein woodward uh... was all in i and you know it was stealing documents from the beginning as it as an all-in-one officer out of the white house i mean look at the real truth behind watergate and that'll be i don't know about nine eleven but i do know about watergate because i lived through it and i've researched it and there's many good books on it uh... look at the cover-up of watergate and the white house

the Washington Cold Girl ring that was going on at the DNC. And you'll begin to see how these pieces fit together. Well, and the other piece to to Watergate, tie into JFK is that regarding Frank Sturgis, that he was one of the burglars because he was trying to recover evidence that would have incriminated him in the...

JFK assassination. Not really true at all. OK. Really true. John Dean orchestrated this because his future wife Maureen Dean was one of the whores that was in the photos in the desk outside of O'Donnell's office at the DNC. They broke into that desk to get the photos of the different prostitutes and his wife was one of them. OK, OK, that's why they broke in there. Sturgis didn't even know what was going on there.

Greg Randolph (01:00:44.758)
Surge is with the long for the ride. I got you. mean, the break in was orchestrated and ordered by John Dean. There you go. There you go. Well, what is there anything more that that still surprises you about about the JFK assassination present day? I like where like it's what's going on with the documents right now. Why aren't they on the National Archives website? They seem to be scattered all around.

And yet nobody knows why they're scattered all over the government. This is crazy. They haven't posted the recent release of documents since April. Since April. Where are these documents? Well, they're supposedly at the FBI website. They're at the CIA website. What do I do? Do think I go to the CIA website to look for documents? It's crazy. These things are all supposed to be on the National Archives website. And they're not there.

All of these release documents that you're discussing, the William Harvey documents are not on the National Archives website. Interesting. They're on the CIA websites. Well, I didn't pay all these taxes to have them on the CIA website. The National Archives exists for a reason, and that's where these documents should be. Yeah. For public access is why I'm referring to this.

I got you. I mean, that makes more sense. I I follow what the guys do at JFK Facts with Jeff Morley and Mary Farrell Foundation and a couple of those things. But absolutely, the archives is definitely a great resource. speaking of, are there any other books or...

documentaries maybe you the men who killed Kennedy whatever whatever it might be that that you would that you would recommend to to someone just watch Destiny Betrayed the most recent over stone documentary I think it's like four hours yeah don't watch the two-hour cut there's a four-hour version that you can purchase or watch on Amazon just watch that

Greg Randolph (01:03:09.24)
I mean, if you didn't know anything about the assassination, or you knew a little bit, and you wanted to really just move forward, just look at that four-hour documentary that Oliver recently created with Jim DiEugenio, who is the mastermind of the entire research community, a guy with impeccable research skills, far better than mine.

But you you begin to look at the autopsy and there's many Achilles heels to the Warren commission obviously Mexico City where he was not there but also the autopsy because if you look at the autopsy and forget about all the distractions and everything else if you look at who was at the autopsy Rear Admiral Edward Kenny Rear Admiral Cal

and be Galloway rear Admiral George Berkeley they all were supposed to report to one man and that's the secretary of the Navy well we didn't have a secretary of the Navy my friend and the second person above him would be the vice president of the United States in the chain of command but we didn't have a vice president the next person up to chain of command was Lyndon Baines Johnson the president of United States these three admirals

running the autopsy all reported directly to one man and that was Lyndon Baines Johnson and that's a fact. That doesn't surprise me in the least because they had to confiscate the body and get it out of there so they could take the bullets out of the other places and his back and his throat. Let me ask you this. Sure.

Do you think these doctors and these admirals who were medical people, one became a surgeon general as part of reward from LBJ the following year, do you believe that these people woke up that morning and said, I feel like we should alter the autopsy of the dead president of the United States? I'm going to do that on my own. I'm going to talk to you about this. And I'm going to come up with, it's absurd. It's absolutely absurd.

Greg Randolph (01:05:17.858)
There's only one man who would direct them to do that and that was the president of the United States, Lyndon Baines Johnson. Right. mean, any control of that autopsy, any deviation would have been absurd for these guys to veer off course and say, you know what, I'd like to do the autopsy this way. Give me a break. No, they were. I mean, it was from from everything that I've seen. That was a pretty that was a pretty tough place to

to be in to to- Where is Johnny Roseli in that autopsy? Where is Carlos Marcello in that autopsy?

Yeah, they're I mean, they aren't they aren't there. Right. Because that's not their job description. Their job description was to get 50 grand to to Jack Ruby to do away with Lee Harvey Oswald. It's all compartmentalized. not involved in an autopsy. They're not involved in any of this other stuff. They're involved in this one aspect of the assassination. And believe me, the CIA has been trying since 1963.

to alter the perception that they were involved and that the mob did it. That's their game. That's their game. And you could say, well, you know, they have every right to do that. Well, they're a public organization. They don't really have a right to do that. But that's been the way they have lowered the number on the polling of who do you think was involved in the assassination of the president.

through their efforts over the years and taxpayers money they have increased the polling and among the american people that the hit was done by the mafia that's what they want you to believe and they say well you know joseph kennedy if it wasn't for the mob kennedy would have been president because he delivered illinois right? right he delivered illinois well you know what rfk jr told me

Greg Randolph (01:07:15.768)
take illinois off the board take it off the board and jfk still had enough electoral votes to win the election people do not understand what they're talking about

Very true, very true. Well, there's certainly a lot to this story and I greatly appreciate all the great work and great answers and certainly all the corrections where I've gone wrong here. No, no, it's okay because that's why I enjoy talking to you because you have to have an open mind and you can't really know all this stuff. It's too big. It's taken me...

Greg, it's taken me 50 years to get where I am here. I mean, I had to write a 10 hour mini series for Oliver Stone, the harshest employer I've ever had. So I learned the hard way to find the facts of this case. Yeah. You know, it's just I've I mean, I'm a little bit in the same boat, but, 40 years from learning, you know, what what I was what I was told I needed to believe in high school out of the textbook.

to present day and not believing that at all. I did, I had to open my mind and go, well, okay, well, hold on, I'll bite here. What if there, okay, if there was a conspiracy, okay, what happened? Or what didn't happen? And if you have to be, I think someone has to be willing to have that thought that they're willing to.

to find something and think for themselves and not just think what someone's telling them to think. Well, the point of this whole conversation is there are forces pushing back against you that are invisible forces that are trying to alter your perception of the events. And it's hardly discernible because that's how they do business. So you have to keep in mind that not everything you read is true. People have to know that not every documentary is true.

Greg Randolph (01:09:21.602)
No, absolutely. that's, you know, they did a, I mean, they, they, did a great job of, of creating a whole lot of diversion and chaos and dilly plaza that day. Right. And then they've done that also for 50 years in mass media. yeah. No question. And that's a lot harder to discern. Yeah.

I mean, you ask Dave Talbot, and I'll tell you this. Dave Talbot, who is as far left as it comes, said it is simply, here's a quote from Dave Talbot, it is simply not credible that a man in Johnson's position would have discussed something as extraordinarily sensitive as the removal of the president with a man who occupied Harvey's place in the security hierarchy. That's his take on this thing. You know, and he says, quote,

LBJ might be a passive accessory or even an active accomplice, but LBJ was certainly not the mastermind. That's David Talbot. Because if LBJ is the mastermind of this assassination, his entire civil rights democratic legacy crumbles to the ground. And that's why the Jackie and Robert Kennedy

fought so hard to get that chapter out of William Manchester's book, Death of a President. And that chapter has an interview with Jackie Kennedy where she feels the mastermind was LBJ. Yeah. So let me ask you one more thing on LBJ. Is there any truth to the allegation that he and

and a lot of other higher ups from across the board were at oil man Clint Mercheson's house that the night before the assassination. Absolutely. Okay, absolutely. I mean, they had to be somewhere. I mean, to them, it was just a party. I mean, you got to look at it. They're not sitting around at some conspiratorial coven of witches. He was in Dallas. These are his people.

Greg Randolph (01:11:38.927)
Going to go to Murchison's house is not bizarre to him. He'd been there a bunch of times. Right. Where was he going to go from there? He went to the hotel in Fort Worth and there's when he has the fight right after that party is where he has that fight. was telling you about with JFK about Connolly's seating. The the other the other interesting thing that I that I heard about about that about that party was that was that was it J. Edgar Hoover was there.

But someone wanted to debunk that because he was in Washington the next day to tell RFK that his brother had been killed. I don't think he was there. I never believed that. There's no upside for him to go to that party. OK. OK. There's no upside for this guy. I mean, look, he's not flying around the country just to go to some party and then fly back. You know, I mean, again, believe that presence equals guilt.

and the fact that they cannot even be there is probably more factual that have been there but the fact that people gather in a certain location does not mean that you're guilty of a crime in that location i i think dollars but you know if you'll be jay ranch is far more important to me then you know richard nixon leaving the day before the assassination where he tell and he was legitimately out of cocoa

Coca-Cola Bottler's Association seminar where he was their lawyer. But Nixon leaves and he says, which is on the front page of the Dallas Morning Paper, know, LBJ to be dropped from the ticket. And that's in the paper too that day on November 22nd, a quote from Nixon at the airport. This story, I tell you what, this story just has so many turns to it.

I think the next book that I might get is, would you recommend JFK chokeholds by James D'Eugenio? Yeah, it's a fantastic book. just had a lawyer on yesterday, Andrew Eiler, one of the authors. Andrew has been on, Paul Blow has been on, D'Eugenio has been on. It's a wonderful book because it allows you, it's kind of like a cliff notes, as I said yesterday, when...

Greg Randolph (01:14:01.327)
on it's like a cliff note to the assassination so it's easily digestible and it's absorbable highly recommendable excellent excellent well I'm gonna I'm gonna check that out and yeah with with any luck I will hopefully get to meet you in person at the JFK conference in a few weeks I hope to hope to see you and shake your hand all that good stuff

Greg, it's been a pleasure. Any other questions? I'll be happy to answer them in the future or at that conference. If I run into you there, like I said, I'll be presenting with Bob Groton. believe me, these imprudent film is real. I'll just leave you with that. Yeah, it's I guess real and it was altered. I don't believe it was altered at all. And the CIA would love you to believe it was altered. Love you to believe that.

If it was altered, it did them absolutely no good. I gotcha. I gotcha. I gotta get out of here. Greg, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. I love talking to you. You seem to know a lot about the assassination, which is always pleasurable. So didn't have to fill in the blanks. You seem to know quite a bit and have done quite a bit of reading. Just be careful what you're reading so you don't go down some crazy rabbit holes that I'd like you to go down.

I appreciate that advice very much and I'm going to take it. Thank you brother. Thank you. Thank you Mark. Have a great night. We'll hopefully see you in a few weeks. Okay Greg. Thank you so much. Thank you Mark. I appreciate it.

Greg Randolph (01:15:46.689)
All right, everyone. Thank you again for listening to the Heroes and Icons podcast with your host, Greg Randolph. Once more, thank you very much to our guest, Mark Grubert. And you can find the link to his amazing YouTube account, America's Untold Stories, with other links in the show notes for this podcast. Thank you again, everyone, for listening. Have a great night. God bless.